Xia Bohai said: "This issue is also complicated, that is, in the past five years, whether we will overthrow the Qing court as our goal, of course, this means that if conditions permit, at least the three northeastern provinces should be completely stabilized." If even the Northeast can't be stabilized, of course we don't have any other ideas. Lao Qin, tell me how long it will take for the Northeast region to be completely stabilized? You have the most say in this regard. ”

Qin Zheng said: "It is estimated that it will take two years for the Northeast region to completely stabilize, but taking into account the factors of Mongolia, it should be relaxed a little, even if it takes three years." ”

Wang Yunpeng said: "Political commissar, what does the stability of the Northeast region have to do with Mongolia?"

Qin Zheng said: "After the end of this war, Russia will basically be unable to compete with us in the Far East for a long time, but according to the experience of the old time and space, it is very likely that they will use the separatist forces of Mongolia as a proxy and make enemies of us in order to contain our expansion in the Far East." Therefore, there is a very good chance that we will have a local war with the Mongolian separatist forces in the next one or two years. ”

You Qian Ming said: "The Mongols' minds will not be so stupid, it is obvious that even hundreds of thousands of Russian troops are not our opponents, and he should also understand that there is no chance of victory against us." ”

Xia Bohai said: "Mongolia at this time is still a tribal system, don't overestimate the wisdom of those tribal leaders, and Mongolia's information spread slowly, so Russia can take advantage of the asymmetric information advantage, and use the support **** as a bait to say that the Mongolian separatist forces are enemies with us, which is entirely possible." ”

Qin Zheng said: "This also takes into account the tactics commonly used by the Mongolian army, they must mainly attack and harass the cavalry, and will not confront us head-on, such tactics, Mongolia should still have a little confidence." Therefore, it is also necessary to adopt targeted combat training. ”

Xia Bohai said: "Okay, the Mongolian matter will not be carried out today, then according to what Lao Qin said, it will take 2-3 years to completely stabilize the northeast region, and we will also have to consider a battle with the separatist forces of Mongolia." Everyone will express their opinions. ”

Xiao Jianjun first said: "I will only talk about my views from a military point of view. If, from a military point of view, we defeat the Qing army, or even conquer Beijing, there is basically no difficulty, and at most we only need to dispatch the strength of two armies, and I can guarantee that we will be able to take Beijing. Because the only thing that the Qing court can compete with our People's Army is the Beiyang New Army, which is about 6-70,000 in number, which is roughly the same as the strength of one of our armies. However, through the second anti-encirclement and suppression operation in the rivers and lakes base areas, we also have a relatively clear understanding and assessment of the strength of the Beiyang New Army; in fact, only in terms of the personal quality of the soldiers, it should be said that there is not much difference between the soldiers of the Beiyang New Army and our soldiers, but there is a considerable gap between the tactical quality and the command ability of commanders at all levels and us. After all, it is easy to train troops, and it is enough to learn according to a pattern, but it is not possible to learn tactical quality and command ability. However, although the Beiyang New Army was formed in accordance with the establishment and training of the modern army, it could not be completely regarded as a modern army, but Yuan Shikai's private army, which determined the upper limit of the Beiyang New Army. ”

"In the second anti-encirclement and suppression battle in the river and lake base area, the Beiyang New Army showed that its tactics were too rigid, and it lacked actual combat experience in fighting modern warfare, and from the experience of the old time and space, this is also the normal operation of the Beiyang New Army, although in the old time and space, in the past 20 years, the Beiyang New Army is the strongest army in China, but this is based on a low level of competition, whether it is the second revolution, The Protector War or the later Zhifeng War, the performance of the Beiyang New Army was lackluster, but the opponent was worse, so the Beiyang New Army won in the worse than the bad, in fact, the Beiyang New Army was not difficult to fight, not to mention that in the second anti-encirclement and suppression battle in the river and lake base area, we had already disabled the two towns of the Beiyang New Army, although the two towns on the left have been rebuilt, but after all, the time is not long, and the quality can not be compared with the previous soldiers, so the actual combat effectiveness of the Beiyang New Army will not exceed 50,000. Under the same troop conditions, I am 100 percent sure that we can defeat the Beiyang New Army, and as long as the Beiyang New Army is defeated, the other Qing armies will not have to worry, at most we only need to invest two armies, and we can completely deal with the Qing court militarily. ”

Lu Hong said: "If the Mongol separatist forces, with the support of Russia, attack us at the same time as we attack the Qing court, then can we cope with such a two-front situation?"

Xiao Jianjun said: "Of course this is possible, because Mongolia's military strength is actually not enough to pose a subversive threat to us, and even a major threat is not even a major threat, at most it is just harassment and creating a little trouble for us, and after the Northeast stabilizes, we will definitely have garrisons in the Northeast, and only the local garrisons are enough to deal with the Mongolian attack." ”

Lu Hong said: "But Mongolia can send troops south, reach Beijing, and directly reinforce the Qing court." ”

Xiao Jianjun said: "In that case, the Mongolian army will have to confront us head-on, and it will be easier to deal with." After a pause, Xiao Jianjun said: "Actually, I really hope that Mongolia will attack us in the next 1 or 2 years, because then we have a reason to teach them a hard lesson, there is no suspense in this military aspect, and the troops invested do not need to be too much, 1 or 2 divisions are enough, and in the future, if we really attack the Qing court, Mongolia will not dare to act rashly." Of course, all of these situations I have mentioned are from a purely military point of view, and do not take into account other aspects, such as politics and economics, so I will only consider them. ”

Xia Bohai nodded and said, "Lao Xiao said it very well, everyone has nothing to say." ”

Wang Jun said: "If, according to what the chief of staff said, we already have an absolute advantage over the Qing court militarily, then I advocate that the Qing court should be destroyed altogether." Because sooner or later we are going to take this step, since the strength has reached this point, the Qing court will not waste too much strength, so it is better to take this step earlier than to go later, I think the biggest price is just a few years later in our development, but after overthrowing the Qing court and unifying the whole country, we can mobilize the strength of the whole country, and consider the development plan as a whole, so that it can be better developed. ”

After a pause, Wang Jun said again: " According to my understanding, although we have completely broken with the Qing court and are a completely independent political entity, it cannot be denied that the Qing court still occupies the Daimyo Council representing China's orthodoxy, although smart people can see that the Qing court is already in decline, but in the eyes of ordinary people, we are still just a rebel force, no different from the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom in the past, and even inferior to the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, and became the orthodoxy of China and was supported by all Chinese. That's my attitude. ”

You Qian Ming said: "In fact, there is no contradiction between the founding of the country and the overthrow of the Qing court, and we are almost no different from a country now, that is, there is one less country name, which is just a matter of form." As for the unification of the whole country, even if the political commissar just said that it will take 2-3 years to stabilize the Northeast, then more than half of this five-year cycle has passed, since this is the case, it is better to wait, accumulate and develop for a while, and wait for the next five-year cycle to overthrow the Qing court. ”

Zhang Yuming said: "I think Lao Wang still thinks things too simply, although from a military point of view, it doesn't take much effort for us to defeat the Qing court, but war is never a purely military thing, the chief of staff just said, his words are only for our reference." I only ask three questions, if anyone can answer, then I am not against the overthrow of the Qing court, the first question is, defeating the Qing army and overthrowing the Qing court are two concepts, even if we capture Beijing, it cannot be equated with the overthrow of the Qing court, Cixi and Guangxu can completely abandon Beijing and flee to other places, as long as the emperor is still there, the Qing court cannot be regarded as annihilation, so what is our goal? The second question is that the chief of staff just said that the Qing court could be defeated with only two armies. Of course, the cost of the two armies in the capture of Beijing is not to be revealed, but this is only a purely military calculation, and the areas that have been defeated will be defended by troops, and if we want to occupy the whole country, how many troops will be needed to guard the occupied areas, and how much will this cost be, and whether we can afford it with our current financial capacity; the third question is that it is not enough to have an army alone, and there are still people to manage the occupied areas, how many management personnel do we have now, and do we have enough manpower to manage such a large part of the country? These are my problems. ”

Li Sanjie continued: "I can't answer Lao Zhang's question, but I want to say a situation for everyone's reference. We are developing, others are also developing, although in this Far East War, Russia and Japan have suffered heavy losses, but Russia has a thick foundation, a large population, and rich resources, although Japan's base population is not as good as Russia, but after all, the Meiji Restoration has been carried out for 40 years, the foundation is much better than ours, and there is the support of Britain and the United States, so the speed of development may not be beneficial to us, and we are obviously at a disadvantage because of the long-term development. If, by the time we attack the Qing court, Russia and Japan have already recovered their national strength, they will certainly intervene and create trouble for us, so we must have a clear assessment of how long it will take Russia and Japan to recover, and the time for us to overthrow the Qing court and unify the whole country is best done before Russia and Japan are restored, so as not to give them a chance to interfere. ”