"Peng, I'll tell you now, what I think about the character of the clown!" Nolan's voice instantly called Peng Yichen back from his thoughts.

"Are you listening to me?" Nolan saw that Peng Yichen didn't react for a while, and asked again with a smile.

"Oh, I'm sorry, I'm thinking about the clown's mental world and I'm a little distracted. Peng Yichen retracted his thoughts and said apologetically.

Nolan laughed, "I knew you would love this character, in fact, it's my favorite character." Do you want to hear what I thought of the role of the Joker when I wrote the script?"

"Of course, of course I want to know. Peng Yichen came to Nolan for this, he focused his attention entirely on Nolan, wanting to hear his thoughts on the Joker.

Nolan smiled, and then the expression on his face was completely immersed in another world, and said slowly:

"Before I talk about the Joker, I have to say a few things about the four basic forces of Gotham City, or the basic way of thinking, in my mind. These are four completely different forces, but they are entangled with each other. There was a debate in the script, do you remember?

It's the conversation between Batman Bruce, Knight Harvey, ballet dancer Natasha, and lawyer Rachel at dinner together. ”

Peng Yichen nodded, that conversation also had a very profound impact on his memory, on the surface, it was not shocking, but behind everyone's words there was a huge force, tearing and duel with each other, but they were interdependent and cooperative.

Nolan nodded, he knew that Peng Yichen must have paid attention to this debate, and he continued: "In this conversation, ballet dancer Natasha believes that Batman above the law is an unreasonable existence. What Gotham City needs is a hero who, like Harvey, is within the framework of the law and according to the law.

Harvey, the Knight of Light, believes that in extraordinary times, extraordinary means are required, and a warrior like Batman is worth encouraging compared to ordinary citizens who stand on the sidelines and watch coldly.

Rachel, a lawyer, believes that law is law, and delegating power to a few heroes in extraordinary times can easily create a dictator like Caesar. Warriors grow scales and become dragons.

Natasha represents the notion of the general public, who don't like superheroes, thinking that the power of these heroes is above them, so they prefer the law and the enforcers who are bound by the law, which makes them feel more secure.

Rachel is a typical lawyer who insists on procedural justice, and she believes that once people are not bound by the law, whether good or bad, they will eventually swell to the point of wantonly harming others. This is also the reason why she has always been reluctant to be with Batman Bruce, even though she likes him. Because Batman, who is not bound by the law, has a fundamental conflict with her life philosophy.

Rachel finally chose Harvey because Harvey is a man with ideals, integrity, and the ability to re-establish order in Gotham City by legal means.

Of course, Harvey is different from Rachel, he does not insist on procedural justice, his philosophy is actually very similar to Batman, as long as the final result justice can be achieved, then no matter what means are used, it is acceptable.

Moreover, Rachel promised Bruce that she would promise to be with Bruce when he was no longer Batman.

So Bruce has been looking for his successor, a successor within the legal framework, to help him in his quest to establish order in Gotham City. And in the end, he chose Harvey.

This is Batman's selfishness, and it is also his obsession throughout the movie. Because of this, in the end, Batman was almost completely defeated by the Joker. ”

Peng Yichen nodded, it was the first time he had heard the analysis of the three forces representing justice in Gotham City, which made his understanding of this story more profound.

"Then what about the fourth force you are talking about?" Peng Yichen couldn't help but ask when he saw that Nolan only said the power of the three parties.

Nolan hesitated, took a sip of coffee, sorted out his thoughts, and then replied, "The fourth force is the power of darkness and chaos represented by the clown. The first three forces, no matter how divergent, have the same purpose. That is to restore order in Gotham City, so that ordinary people can live in the city in peace. But the clown is the absolute opposite of their purpose!"

Peng Yichen noticed a word "absolute negative", and he immediately asked, "What is absolute negative?!"

Nolan thought for a moment and replied, "When I was a kid, the Batman comics weren't a must-read book for me, let alone a hobby, knowing that I saw the character of the Joker.

You know, this is a character that is different from all the villains. From the inside out, he exudes an incomparably dangerous, yet extremely charismatic and intriguing temperament. I've always wanted to understand why this character is so appealing and why it's so memorable!

Eventually, I found the answer to my question, because he was an absolute opposite!

You can see how the clown appears in my script.

In a dangerous, tense bank robbery, he appears as the leader of the robbers. But treat this heist as a game. He was relaxed with everyone, making weird-looking little movements at random, as if he were really a circus clown, making people laugh.

However, at the end of the robbery, he lightly exploited the greed of several of his robbers, causing them to kill each other, and all of them died worthless.

It can be said that the clown doesn't care about the money at all, and killing people is not his goal, he just uses crime as a stage and fully enjoys the pleasure of playing with human nature on this stage. In his mind, he is the god of the chaotic world. So he can be unscrupulous, not caring about any danger and fear, and committing any terrible crime in an extremely relaxed state. ”

Peng Yichen nodded, "Then how did this state of mind come about?"

Nolan thought for a moment and didn't answer the question directly, but asked, "Do you remember that the clown told the origin of the scars on his face twice, but the two times were completely different?"

Peng Yichen nodded, he hadn't thought about this question thoroughly in his previous life, and now that he sees Nolan himself, of course, he has to listen to the opinions of the film editor and director himself.

Nolan recalled his creative thoughts, saying, "The first time, the Joker was in front of a gang leader and told the origin of his scars. He said that his father was a drunkard who often abused his mother and him when he was drunk. Once, when his father was drunk, his mother slashed him with a kitchen knife to protect himself, and his father stabbed his mother to death with a dagger, and on either side of his mouth, a large, smile-like scar.

The second time, the clown said it when he hijacked Rachel, and he also said that he used to have a beautiful wife, but later he was completely disfigured by the other party because of loan sharking. In order to make his wife happy, he cut his mouth open, hoping to make his wife happy with an eternal smile. But his wife eventually left him. ”

While listening, Peng Yichen took out the script and flipped to these two paragraphs, which are indeed two scenes with very intense dramatic conflicts.

"These two completely different statements are both true and neither are true. These two clowns tell about their tragic life experiences, and it is not the clown telling his story at all, he is mocking and expressing an attitude.

When he confronts the gang leader, he creates the role of a father, using an extremely powerful sense of threat and oppression to make the gang leader submit.

And when he faced Rachel, he pretended himself as an aggrieved, pitiful, and sad victim, so that Rachel felt a little sympathetic to him.

Therefore, these two statements are created by the clown himself, which is his disdain and ridicule for the so-called unfair treatment, and then after psychological distortion, to take revenge on the crime and darkness of society.

He was saying, in essence, "If you do something big, it will be a reason for you to take revenge on society and your crimes?"

This was also reflected when he burned down the gang's Qianshan.

He watched hundreds of millions of dollars turn into ashes on his own, but his face was full of casualness, and he said to his extremely distressed subordinates: All you care about is money, but what I care about is to make the evil in this world more beautiful!"

Peng Yichen repeated this sentence: "Let the evil of this world become more beautiful?"

Nolan said this, starting to get excited, he nodded, and replied, "Yes, that's the charm and power of the Joker. He does not seek money, power, fame, or sex, and cannot be bought, intimidated, reasoned, or negotiated. He just wants to establish the order in his heart, the order of chaos, panic, and darkness, and he just wants all the darkness in human nature to be exposed, free and free to release at will. Because he thinks that's heaven, even if everybody thinks it's hell.

All, he is definitely not an ordinary deranged sociopath. He is a master at manipulating human nature. If he wants to, he can easily blend in with the crowd and become an object of love and reverence for all. But he chose the opposite, which is to destroy the humanity of all.

Think about it, when Batman grabbed him and beat him for interrogation, he didn't have any panic or fear at all, just used a sentence to easily destroy the Light Knight Harvey, and also made Batman suffer a heavy blow.

How did he do it?

Quite simply, he just revealed the news that Rachel and Harvey were tied to bombs by him and placed at both ends of the city.

Later, when he told Batman where Harvey and Rachel were, he deliberately said the opposite.

This lie is powerful.

If Batman focuses on the overall situation and saves Harvey, then he can only come out with Rachel, Harvey dies, and Rachel will never be with Batman because of self-blame.

And if Batman saves Rachel for personal gain, then he can only save Harvey in the end, and Rachel will die.

At this time, Batman is not the embodiment of justice at all, because he also puts his personal interests ahead of the interests of the whole of Gotham City. So Batman's chivalrous deeds that have always been above the law are not justice, but his way of satisfying his selfish desires. Then Batman is no different from the Joker, both are people who impose their selfish desires on the whole city.

The final result was the same as he thought, Rachel died, and Harvey also became a criminal because of Rachel's death. ”

Peng Yichen nodded solemnly, and finally asked Nolan: "If you want to make a simple summary for the clown, what does he represent in your heart?"

This time, Nolan thought for a long time before he smiled and said, "The clown is the embodiment of the deepest part of my heart, that trace of yearning for chaos.

When I was a child, I would often go to the street to fight with someone because I felt uncomfortable. Because at that time, I had no fear or rules in my heart, only nature and freedom.

I think that in this world, everyone has fantasized about absolute freedom, and absolute freedom means absolute chaos. It's dark and brutal, but it's also fascinating and exhilarating. Right?"

Peng Yichen listened and muttered to himself: "Does the most dangerous horror come from the most absolute freedom?

……