Honki Shi × Eiichiro Oda

"Dragon and Tiger" summit dialogue

It is the strongest competitor and the best ally.

Standing in "Shonen Jump", no, the two who stand at the pinnacle of the shonen manga industry

The same reverence for Akira Toriyama's "Dragon Ball".

Exchange respect for each other and obsession with manga!

- Mr. Kishimoto, I've been working hard for 15 years of serialization.

Kishimoto: Thank you. Sure enough, there is a feeling of "liberation". But lately, I've been quite busy because of the Naruto Festival and movies, so I thought it would be a little more free (laughs).

Oda: When I met you at the end of the series, didn't you say, "The color of the sky looks different"?

Kishimoto: It's different, the whole sky is bright, it's sky blue (laughs).

Oda: I haven't seen that kind of sky yet, isn't it usually brown (laughs)?

Kishimoto: A lot of things have changed, and the taste of the water is different (laughs). However, when I was thinking about the movie script, I didn't think it was necessary to stay in the house to conceive it, so I went out for a walk, but there was no progress at all.

Oda: Not on the outside. I can't come up with a good idea when I go out to regulate my mood.

Kishimoto: But when you go out, you see a variety of shops, and when you see a new signboard, you want to go in and have something to eat. A while ago, I went to watch a movie with my children, and I was very happy, and we could have a meal and chat together after watching the movie.

Oda: I'm so envious. It's hard to have that much free time during the series, and even if you leave the workbench, you will feel uneasy, right?

Kishimoto: That's right, I was like that during the serialization.

- When you heard the news of the end of Naruto, how did Oda-sensei feel?

Oda: "Is it finally here...... "Sure enough, I still feel very lonely." Although I had heard the news beforehand, I still didn't want it to end.

Kishimoto: I sent a line message to Oda after the serialization, and I was already in touch, so I didn't think it was a special thing, and I would be embarrassed to take it too seriously (laughs).

- In the final issue of "Shonen Jump" in the "Naruto" final issue, many "Naruto"-related easter eggs were added to the title page of "One Piece" in the same period, which caused a heated discussion.

Oda: The editor in charge at the end of Kishimoto-san's serialization was my previous editor, so we had a plot to "definitely do something when Naruto ends", and I kept telling him to ask him to help with some ideas.

Kishimoto: Well, I don't even know about it.

Oda: As a result, the editor in charge didn't have any idea at all, so I thought, "Anyway, I'll draw all the elements of Naruto," and I just played it on the spot.

Kishimoto: Well, it must have been a lot of work at the time.

- If you connect the initial text of the menu on the wall, it means "Naruto has worked hard" (ナルトおつかれさんでした).

Oda: I wanted to reflect the atmosphere of "Ichiraku" (a ramen shop that Naruto frequented), so I thought it would be better to hide some information directly in the menu. I was going to tell Kishimoto-san if no one found out, but I didn't expect to be noticed soon (laughs).

Kishimoto: But I didn't notice it at first, but it was my brother (manga artist Seishi Kishimoto) who called and said, "If you look closely at the menu in the background, it will be linked into one sentence." "Oh, really!"

Oda: But then again, I'm glad you noticed it, I thought I was hiding it pretty well.

- Readers seem to have gotten the hint from the name of the dish "Arugula salad" (ルッコラサラダ).

Oda: It's true that this dish isn't very common in regular restaurants, although I went to find the name of the dish that starts with ル (laughs).

Kishimoto: The part on the title page where Luffy is eating ramen and Naruto is eating meat is also very interesting.

Oda: It's also very rare that Luffy will give away the meat (laughs).

Kishimoto: And the title of "One Piece" (Chapter 766) is still "smile", so I really feel like my heart is hot. Although there was a lively discussion, the joy was something that only I could understand.

Oda: There's a little secret, in addition to the title page, I also wanted to draw some information for "Naruto" in this article, but at that time, I happened to be drawing the Korazon Memories chapter, and Luffy didn't have a chance to appear at all, so I originally wanted to hide the Hokage's logo in the background, or draw a line like Naruto on Luffy's face, but by the time the Hokage ended, the memories weren't over.

Kishimoto: That's right (laughs). But just this title page, when I saw it, I thought I should have drawn more in the first place.

- In the final words of "Naruto", Mr. Kishimoto also drew the logo of the Straw Hats on the head of the stone statue of Naruto who became the Hokage.

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Oda: Well, Kishimoto-san confirmed with me in advance, and said, "Is it okay to set it up as a children's graffiti and draw a Straw Hat logo?"

Kishimoto: No problem (laughs). I knew that drawing a Straw Hat logo there would definitely be a topic of conversation.

Oda: But I drew it on such a large page (laughs). Maybe it's because we're both cartoonists, and we often feel like we're competing in the same magazine, so we don't think we're friends, right?

Kishimoto: yes, we all have a good relationship (laughs).

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INTERVIEWER When did you first meet?

Kishimoto: When...... It seems to have been when I was a newcomer to JUMP's New Year's party.

Oda: Really?

Kishimoto: Probably (laughs). At that time, the impression of him was already that of a senior.

Oda: What do you say (wry smile).

Kishimoto: No, no, Oda-san started the serialization two years before me, and I thought at the time that there was a great person here. So at first I called him "Oda-sensei", but he stopped him by saying, "Don't call him that."

Oda: Of course, if you're the same age next year, why should you be called a "teacher......

Kishimoto: I guess the people who got into the industry first are better, even though we're not artists (laughs).

Oda: I've been paying attention to Kishimoto-san since he was a rookie, and he draws very well, and it's nice that he has a similar "genre".

Kishimoto: Genres...... (laughs)

Oda: Something like "why do you have a Kamesen-ryu uniform?" (laughs). But that's why I've been in combat for a long time.

Kishimoto: I thought about competing (laughs).

Oda: After all, there will still be a battle between winners and losers in manga works. But after meeting, I felt that he was really a very kind and good person, and it would not change whether he won or lost. That's why I feel that I can't compete with such a person.

Kishimoto: Also, we both understand each other's hardships.

Oda: That's really gratifying. In times of hardship, the most important thing is what kind of words are heard from whom. If Kishimoto-san, who is on the same page, says "I understand" to me, I really feel understood.

Kishimoto: I really understand (laughs). But I think I'm a little bit more relaxed, Oda San has been running in first place, and the hardship is extraordinary, in other words, I might have been so stressed that my stomach would have perforated.

Oda: It's great to be able to compete with Naruto. What I am most grateful for is that "Naruto" will not let "One Piece" always have the upper hand, and Naruto has also won when it was serialized in the weekly, not to mention that "Naruto" is more popular in the world. That's what always makes me feel unwilling from time to time, and I'm really grateful for it. With the exception of Naruto, there is no such existence anymore.

Kishimoto: I'm aiming for One Piece, or I've always wanted to defeat One Piece, there's no doubt about it.

Oda: The fact that "JUMP" can serialize two fantasy ability battle manga at the same time is also a blessing for Kishimoto-san.

Kishimoto: Don't say that (wry smile).

Oda: It's easy to grab readers from two manga with the same pattern being serialized at the same time, but Kishimoto-san is thoughtful and cleverly avoids this problem. For example, Luffy took the red color first, and Kishimoto-san chose orange in the color scheme, so "Naruto" doesn't give the impression of red at all, right? But if Takeshi Kishimoto had started the series two years before me and had taken up red, I think I would still challenge red (laughs).

Kishimoto: That's because we have different personalities (laughs). I do consciously avoid crashing when I was serializing.

Oda: It may seem easy to say this, but it's really hard to avoid it. I also used to worry about how to distinguish it from Dragon Ball.

Kishimoto: yes.

Oda: It's been five years since Dragon Ball was serialized, and it's still impressive to readers, and it's also a manga that I like very much, so I feel like it's impossible to confront it head-on, so I have to avoid it.

Kishimoto: I understand.

Oda: So I'll try to reinforce the impression that "this is not a battle manga but an adventure manga" to the reader. It's going to be even more difficult for Kishimoto-san, because in addition to avoiding Dragon Ball, you also have to avoid One Piece.

Kishimoto: I did make a lot of attempts. Because Oda-san painted the romance of adventure, I can't draw this. Then Naruto should not go out on an adventure and try to create a hometown where people will eventually return even if they leave. Also, I would consider that One Piece is a story of starting from scratch and constantly adding new partners, so Naruto has a variety of partners from the beginning, so it will look very different.

Oda: Speaking of which, there was also the only place I avoided Naruto. Actually, Sanji's name was originally set to "Naruto", but when the Hokage started the series, I suddenly thought that this should be a long-form serial, right?

Kishimoto: When was that? Did you already set up a character to roll your eyebrows?!

Oda: Yes, Sanji's eyebrows are curly, right? That's why his name is Naruto, and that's what he wrote all along. So fortunately, the Hokage started serializing before Sanji appeared, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to avoid it. (*The pronunciation of "Naruto roll", a famous ramen ingredient in Japan, is also Naruto, and the curly shape is the same as Sanji's eyebrow shape)

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INTERVIEWER What does Oda think of Kishimoto's painting?

Oda: I'm really good at whatever I paint. Because Kishimoto-san has a lot of respect for the original artist of the animation, the way the shadows are drawn is very distinct.

Kishimoto: Yes, I can draw obviously, and Oda-san is very different from me.

Oda: Because I'm a grader. However, bones like Luffy are different from ordinary people, and sometimes they don't know how to draw shadows (laughs).

Kishimoto: Oda-san's composition is amazing. Even if there are many characters, they can appear in one frame in perfect harmony, and the picture is full of storytelling, so you can enjoy watching it.

Oda: Kishimoto-san likes anime, so the graphics have effects that can't be seen in ordinary manga. The expressiveness is really great. Especially the ninjutsu they use Naruto, obviously the larger the picture, the more difficult it is to express, but in Kishimoto-san's pen, there is a sense of change in layering.

Kishimoto: I like to draw effect lines because it's my obsession (laughs).

Oda: What surprised me the most was the image of sinking into the water using transparent ninjutsu, and even though only the shadows were drawn, the effect was so good that it was very impressive.

Kishimoto: When you drew Kakashi's Gaiden, it seemed right?

Oda: When I draw transparent people, I imitate your way of drawing (laughs).

Kishimoto: Sure enough, the focus is different, but I'm so happy to hear from you.

Oda: And then there's the color, you're really good at picking colors, do you have any obsessions when choosing colors?

Kishimoto: Not (laughs).

Oda: You like simple colors.

Kishimoto: yes, that's right.

Oda: I used to like the simple and elegant colors depicted by Kishimoto-san the most, but because One Piece is a shonen manga, I forced myself to add a lot of bright colors, and now I'm used to using bright colors, and I've done a lot of hard work (laughs).

Kishimoto: I see. The tone of "One Piece" is really bright.

Oda: But it's good that the two works can be separated.

Kishimoto: The colors of One Piece are too difficult for me to do, but this is Oda-san's weapon. I've seen a lot of works, but I've never seen a color like this anywhere else. I thought it was a talent you were born with, but I didn't expect it to be deliberately cultivated, this kind of brightness is really amazing......

Oda: I've worked so hard to draw rainbows and the like to practice (laughs).

- Did Kishimoto-sensei pay special attention to the part when he drew "Naruto"?

Kishimoto: There's the effect line I mentioned earlier, and there's the fact that I want to draw the feeling of my feet on the ground in the manga.

Oda: It sounds like a no-brainer, but it's actually very difficult to draw. If the shoulders are raised, the position of the waist will also change, and if you don't grasp the center of gravity of the body, you will not be able to draw well. A sense of balance is very important. So even if Naruto was just in a standing position, he still had a sense of stability.

Kishimoto: Oda-san also draws very well in this area.

Oda: I guess there are a lot of cases where I draw the ground according to the position of my feet, and there are a lot of characters in One Piece that vary in size, so if you set the ground first, you won't be able to draw the characters to your heart's content.

Kishimoto: I know, I've also drawn huge beasts, and it's really difficult, so I have to adjust the ground.

Oda: Kishimoto-san likes Godzilla very much, so he likes to draw huge creatures the most (laughs).

Kishimoto: yes, but once a behemoth appears, the speed of the manuscript slows down because the number of slots increases.

Oda: If you draw from the perspective of a large character, you will see a lot of small characters, and you will have to draw a lot of things.

Kishimoto: But there's no manga artist like Oda-san who draws so much every time, right?

Oda: Is that so...... But Naruto's shadow clone is also terrible to draw.

Kishimoto: That's really damn (laughs).

Oda: But I still have to stick to this part, and even though the process of painting is very hard, I will feel very happy when I finish it, and the reader will enjoy it. No matter how much effort I put into it, I want to draw a high-quality original.

Kishimoto: Then it's a question of whether or not you can support it physically (laughs). But because even Oda-san is so lazy to draw well, I want to draw well.

Oda: But in the future, exhibitions like Naruto will gradually disappear, and everyone will use computers to paint, and there will be no more so-called "original paintings...... Maybe we'll be the last generation to be able to hold an original art exhibition.

Kishimoto: Generations......

Oda: We're going to be fossils, us.

Kishimoto: Become a living fossil (laughs).

Oda: I can't do it if I don't rush into the new era as a fossil.

– Which Naruto character is Oda-sensei's favorite in Naruto?

Oda: Rock Lee and Mr. Maitkai. Kishimoto-san's Chinese kung fu is really well drawn.

Kishimoto: Because I've loved Jackie Chan since I was a child, I've watched a lot of kung fu movies.

Oda: Also, the character design is very handsome. "Naruto" is also very popular.

Kishimoto: It was really hard to draw at that time, after all, I had to paint every week with a fever.

Oda: Was that the hardest period in the series?

Kishimoto: The hardest part is probably the last. Because the last word is to be colored, I started painting very early. And it has been decided which issue will be completed, and the story must be connected with the schedule. But seeing that the final words are approaching, I found that the space is really not enough, and in the past, this situation could be postponed for a week, but this time it is not possible. To be honest, I really felt like it was over.

Oda: I didn't see such nervousness at all, but there was still room for the storyboard...... The process before Naruto and Sasuke's final battle should have been thought out from the beginning, so it's hard to think about this, right?

Kishimoto: It's hard.

Oda: Me too, and I'm happy to think that I'm going to draw the heartwarming finale of One Piece in the future, but there are still a lot of challenges before I get to this ending. There are a lot of ideas now, but it's still very difficult.

INTERVIEWER When Naruto came to an end, what were the aspects that made Kishimoto-sensei bother?

Kishimoto: How do you accurately draw Sasuke's part? Although he has been using so many brushes and inks to depict Naruto's state of mind, it has always hidden Sasuke's true mood. Although I plan to let him confide in him at the end, it is really difficult to get to this point...... The climax of the plot is the final showdown between Naruto and Sasuke, which was decided from the beginning, and the result was as expected, but the development in the middle was completely unexpected......

Oda: I guess I get a little bored with drawing because of the original idea, but if I come up with an interesting idea, I have to go with it. After all, new ideas are hard to come by, and if you don't choose interesting ideas to draw, you'll be sorry for the reader.

Kishimoto: That's definitely going to go with new ideas, if new ideas are more interesting.

Oda: And then I'm going to have to worry about the next week, "I haven't figured out the next plot yet, so what should I do?"

Kishimoto: It's time to go back to the story, so that the plot makes sense a little more. Only a manga artist who is good at round stories can draw good works.

Oda: The ability to summarize past episodes is also very important.

INTERVIEWER This question is a bit premature, but what is the idea for Kishimoto's next work?

Kishimoto: I can't reveal the exact details yet, but I'd love to draw sci-fi works. I love clouds, so I want to fly to the sky. When Oda-san painted the empty island chapter, I was really envious.

Oda: You've said that many times.

Kishimoto: I'm in a really good mood because of that, and I'd love to draw a story like that, but I'm not going to do it because I've already done One Piece.

Oda: Look, I avoided it again. However, I really wish I could take a breather in the short gap before Kishimoto-san didn't start the series.

Kishimoto: But after the serialization ended, I really wanted to draw it again. And I think that while I'm doing nothing and leisurely, Oda-san continues to work diligently on the original manuscript.

Oda: So, feel free to start a new serial. However, when other manga artists end the series, I immediately say, "Come back", and I can't say anything except to the other side of Kishimoto-san. After all, it's been serialized for 15 years, so it's really hard work!

Kishimoto: Thank you!