It seems that there is a smell of gunpowder at the beginning, and the speech of this imperial historian still has a little bit of an offensive flavor, so there are unconvinced people on the Confucian side, and before the imperial historian returns to the seat, he stands up to answer, only to see a tall and thin Confucian sitting in the middle can't wait to stand up and say loudly: "In ancient times, it was advocated to subdue people with virtue rather than to destroy people by force. Now that morality is abolished and the military revolution is appointed, the army is mobilized to go out to crusade, the garrison of Tuntian is to guard against foreign troubles, the soldiers are abroad for a long time, and the grain and grass are endlessly transported to them, the soldiers are starving and freezing outside, and the people at home have to work hard to prepare for war, so it is not a long-term strategy to set up officials who are in charge of the official sales of salt, iron, and liquor to supply the border armaments, this is by no means a long-term strategy, and it is better to abolish it. ”

It seems that it is really-for-tat against Mai Mang, as soon as the Confucian speech here ended, there was immediately another round of applause, of course, the leaders of the coaxing were the people brought by Chen Wan.

The subordinate officials over there also did not admit defeat, seeing the Confucian scholars cheering, they were all gearing up just now, competing to answer, no, as soon as the words fell, there were two people here who got up at the same time and prepared to answer.

"Brother Tongyuan, you can speak first."

"You're welcome, then."

I saw that the two imperial historians got up at the same time and wanted to speak, one of them saw that someone on the other side had already stood up, and he was busy smiling and humbling, although the scene was a little embarrassing, but it was still quite harmonious. The one named Tongyuan was Zhang Tongyuan, a subordinate official of the Imperial Historian, who only heard him say: "The ancient people who established the country opened up the way to do the capital and chase the end, and communicated the existence of materials, and solved the needs of all parties through the market; The market attracted people from all over the world, gathered all kinds of goods, so that farmers, merchants, and engineers could get what they needed and trade with each other; Therefore, if the industry is not developed, there will be a shortage of agricultural use, and if commerce is not developed, then the material will not circulate, and if the agricultural use is lacking, the grain will not grow, and if the material is not circulated, the inner treasury will not be full. ”

After this party finished speaking, the other party came again, as long as someone said it, the topic was endless, only to see another Confucian scholar stand up and say: "If you teach the people with benevolence, the people will be generous, and if you lure the people with financial gains, the people will be despised; The people's customs are despicable, and the people will go against benevolence and righteousness to pursue profits, and the people will be handed over to the road and connected to the city; Lao Tzu said that if there is more than a poor country, it is because the people's desires are too high and they are eager to pursue profits; Therefore, the king should pay attention to the fundamentals and restrain the pursuit of profit, and use etiquette and righteousness to prevent the greed of the people. And business is only to pass through stagnation, and work is only to be applied, which is not the main task of governing the country. ”

Seeing that the Confucian scholars were aggressive, the imperial historian's subordinate official Yu Shi Cui Daoyuan immediately counterattacked, only to see that as soon as he opened his mouth, he quoted the scriptures and said loudly: "Guan Ziyun, the state has fertile fields and the people are not enough to eat, the equipment is not prepared, there are goods from the mountains and seas and the people are not enough to wealth, and the merchants and workers are not prepared; The cinnabar, lacquer, yak tail and bird feather of Longzhou and Shu counties, the leather, animal bones and ivory of Jing and Yangzhou, the nanmu, catalpa wood and bamboo and arrow bamboo in the south of the Yangtze River, the fish, salt, felt and leather jackets of Yan and Qi, and the lacquer, silk, kudzu cloth and linen cloth produced in Yanzhou and Yuzhou are all necessities for people to live and die, these items are to rely on material circulation and craftsmen to make them, therefore, the sage makes boats and oars, passes through the rivers and valleys, drives cattle and horses, passes through the mountains and inland areas, and even reaches remote areas, and goes deep into the poor countryside. In order to circulate all kinds of goods and facilitate the people; Therefore, the emperor set up salt and iron officials to supply the tools needed for agriculture, and to implement equal losses and make the people rich; The policy of salt and iron and equal loss is supported by the people of the whole country and relied on to obtain the necessities of life, and it is impossible to abolish it! ”

"Yes, it must not be abolished!"

The subordinate officials and imperial historians said in unison, and they were also enthusiastic and applauded.

Another member of the Confucian scholars stood up and answered: "I am Liu Ziyong of Zhongshan, and I have heard that the country has fertile and rich land, and the people are still not full, which is the reason for the pursuit of profit and prosperity and the waste of business; There are all kinds of goods produced by the mountains, forests, and seas, and the people are still not rich, because they do not strive to produce the necessities of the people, but make too many luxuries; Therefore, the water of the great rivers is not enough to fill the leakage of wine vessels, and the abundant goods produced by the mountains, forests and seas are not enough to fill the deep ravines and valleys; Therefore, Pangeng lived in a thatched hut, Shun hid gold, and Emperor Gao forbade merchants to be officials, in order to curb the customs of greed and despicability, and cultivate people's honest and simple atmosphere; Suppress businessmen and block the way for profit, and there are still people who do evil, not to mention that the imperial court takes the lead in making profits? The ram said that if the princes are good and profitable, the doctor will be despised, and the doctor will be greedy, and if the man is greedy, he will be robbed, which opens the door to profit and provides people with a ladder of crime. ”

Weng listened quietly, but Liu Aiji and Zhang Pengzu next to him were a little distracted, but they didn't dare to leave their seats, so they could look around. Liu Yi had been observing the young man next to him, the young man Du Tuo who had just come in with his father Du Yannian, and saw that he had been sitting quietly on his knees, listening attentively, and occasionally cheering and cheering when he had an orgasm.

At this time, I saw that in the subordinate official Yushi on the right, a tall and obese Yushi stood up, and he was not as anxious to argue as the enthroned Yushi just now, but slowly walked to the center, and saluted the people on the stage and on the left very politely, and after the salute, he said: "I am the subordinate official of the Imperial Historian Zhou Zhengguang, and I just heard Brother Liu of Zhongshan saying that chasing profit and prosperity will lure the people to commit crimes, which is indeed a fallacy; In the past, the princes transported the local specialties to the capital as tribute, and it was troublesome and difficult to come and go, most of the goods were very shoddy, and the value of some things was not enough to compensate for its freight, so the counties set up equal-loss officials to help transport, and it was convenient to pay tribute from afar, so it was called equal-lose; Set up a warehouse in the capital to purchase and store goods, buy when the price is cheap, and sell it when the price is expensive, therefore, the government has the physical goods in hand, and the merchants cannot make huge profits, which is called leveling; Therefore, the purpose of equalizing and losing is to stabilize prices and facilitate the people, and they are by no means to open the door to profit and become a ladder for people to commit crimes. ”

......

The debate continued, and it didn't end until the evening, and he sat there quietly and listened, often deep in thought, and Liu had asked him questions several times, but he didn't hear them.