Liu Zongzhou's words made Tianqi slowly have a strange feeling in his heart, he thought to himself that this elected official is essentially a division of power, and it is to disperse the power of the imperial court until it is finally distributed to everyone, but this is just a trend, and it does not mean that it can be implemented now. I have already said that I want to do it in this direction, but it must be done step by step, and each step must be implemented before the conditions for implementation must be met, otherwise it will be counterproductive to pull out the seedlings and promote growth.

What does Liu Zongzhou mean by bringing this up now? The purpose of discussing the criteria for mutual supervision is to clarify a principle that everyone should abide by, so as to prevent one party from opposing the other on the basis of its own immature ideas, so that one party will fall into a situation where they accuse each other of their faults and do not admit each other's mistakes. If you guess the psychology of the other party with vicious thoughts, you will first think that Liu Zongzhou wants to muddy the water first and then fish in troubled waters, because there is a long distance between the ideal and the reality, and the standard of the ideal state is used to demand the present, and it is not strange to ask questions.

Tianqi thought about it carefully, and felt that he couldn't guess Liu Zongzhou with this kind of psychology, because after several years of contact, he knew that Liu Zongzhou's loyalty was not to say, and he was not the kind of person who would make trouble for the sake of power. Liu Zongzhou will get into this bull's horn, probably because of his nerdy temper, the biggest difference between scholars who are often engaged in research and academics and people who often deal with practical affairs is whether they know how to be flexible.

Thinking of this, the apocalypse said: "Lord Liu's saying that the big points and small points make sense, but everything has a sequence, and the first small points and then the big points are the normal order." As far as the appointment of officials is concerned, in the past, officials were all evaluated and appointed and dismissed by the Ministry of Officials, and now officials are managed and punished by the Metropolitan Procuratorate, which means that it is only slightly better than being directly ordered by the emperor. The appointment and dismissal of hundreds of officials have been decided by the emperor alone, and the people in the Metropolitan Procuratorate have the final say, which seems to be progressive, but in fact it is limited, so should we just hand it over to all the people for direct election? I'm afraid there would be a problem if you do that, right? ”

Liu Zongzhou said: "The emperor misunderstood the meaning of the minister, and the minister also knew that things should be done step by step, and as far as the elected officials are concerned, the power should be delegated from the Metropolitan Procuratorate to the provinces, and then the prefectures and counties step by step, and finally it can be said that the people can directly elect." However, what the emperor said today is the standard of supervision, and the minister thinks that this standard must be formulated first, and the rules cannot be changed at any time, right? The sage said that governing the country is to not disturb the people, and the minister thinks that the change of the court order is the biggest source of disturbing the people, I don't know what the emperor thinks? ”

As soon as Liu Zongzhou said this, Tianqi felt a little wrong in his heart, thought about it and said: "It seems that we have different understandings on two issues, that is, we have different views on the order of elected officials and the criteria for mutual supervision. According to Lord Liu, the elected officials should work from the top to the bottom, and I think this is not appropriate, and it should be done from the bottom up, which is related to whether or not the problem can be found and even if the problem is revised. The same is true for mutual supervision, many things will change dramatically over time, and if you hold the same mind, you will seem rigid and stubborn. ”

Seeing that Tianqi and Liu Zongzhou had a disagreement, Gao Panlong said: "Your Majesty, the minister understands what you and Lord Liu mean, in the matter of the elected officials, Lord Liu thinks that we should promote it layer by layer after we have discussed it, and the emperor means that he is worried that there are any deficiencies in the implementation in the middle and cannot be changed, just like the ship is too big to turn around." The emperor means that the first from the bottom to the top and the pilot project in several places first, so that even if any problems are found, they can be made up in time and will not cause big losses, I don't know if the minister is right? ”

Apocalypse nodded and said, "Yes, as the old saying goes, only the feet know whether the shoes are suitable or not, and I don't doubt the ability and insight of the two of you at all, but we must know that what a few of us, including me, may not be correct, and even if it is reasonable, it may not be understood by the people." You can't deny that the people's comprehension and cognitive abilities are very different from yours, and if you can't get them to approve of it, even if you give him honey, he will suspect that it is arsenic. The Supervisory Yuan should first set a general but not specific scope, and let the people do it themselves within this range, and correct it if there is a mistake, and affirm it if it is right. ”

Liu Zongzhou nodded and said: "The ministers agreed with the elected officials on this matter, and the emperor said that what we said may not be correct, and even if it is correct, it may not be understood by the people. However, on the issue of mutual supervision, the ministers insisted on their own view, and people should not only look at the present but also look at the long term, and if they only see the present and ignore the long-term plan, then there will be deviations. ”

Tianqi nodded and said: "Lord Liu's words make me feel familiar, I remember once hearing such a sentence that 'those who do not seek the world are not enough to seek a time, and those who do not plan the overall situation are not enough to seek a domain.'" There is something in common with Lord Liu's view. ”

Liu Zongzhou said: "This makes sense, 'Those who do not seek the world are not enough to seek a time, and those who do not seek the overall situation are not enough to seek a domain.'" 'May I ask the emperor, who said this?' The minister was eager to meet this man and make friends with him. After saying that, he looked at the apocalypse with some eagerness.

Apocalypse said with some embarrassment, "What about the person who said this...... Not yet...... Well, it's not in this world, don't care about him for now, Lord Liu thinks what he said makes sense, but I don't think it's all right. ”

Liu Zongzhou said regretfully: "It's all gone? It's a pity that I didn't have the opportunity to meet this senior, where did the emperor get it when he said that he was not all right? ”

Tianqi said: "The thoughts of the two of you should be said to be very close, which is also the reason why I have a disagreement with you, Lord Liu, seeking the world and the overall situation can only be what your Holy Academy should do, you are the department that grasps the overall development of the Ming Dynasty." But for people in other departments, it's not right, no matter which department must focus on the present, focus on the present, do things steadfastly, if everyone goes to seek the overall situation, how to carry out specific affairs? Today, we are discussing a standard for mutual supervision, which is the standard for the next few years, and the long-term standard is mutual supervision, and there is no need to discuss it. ”

Gao Panlong said at this time: "Your Majesty, the minister has an idea to avoid the disagreement between you and Lord Liu, I don't know what the emperor thinks?" ”

Tianqi and Liu Zong both turned to look at Gao Panlong when they heard this, and Tianqi said: "If Lord Gao really has a good idea, say it quickly, and the idea that can satisfy both parties is a good idea, just like we started to discuss, appointing officials should not only satisfy the court but also the people, and only one party is not really satisfied." ”

Gao Panlong said: "The emperor's intention is not to exclude long-term planning, but he emphasizes that it is necessary to formulate standards for the present, otherwise it will be good for Gao Wuyuan to be good." What Lord Liu means is that everything must be considered in the long run, otherwise it is easy to accumulate small mistakes into big mistakes due to accumulated mistakes, and both of you have a point. I wonder if you can synthesize your ideas, that is, to set a three-year or five-year plan, and first let several departments, including the Holy Academy, the Bo Academy, the Government Affairs Yuan, and the Metropolitan Procuratorate, formulate a plan, and try to satisfy everyone, and do things with this plan in the next three or five years, which is also the standard for our monarchs and ministers to supervise each other, what do you think? ”

Tianqi didn't say anything, Liu Zongzhou said first: "Three-year or five-year planning, this statement is a bit interesting, it can take care of long-term planning and specific changes." But there are exceptions to everything, and what if there is an unexpected change in the last three or five years? ”

Gao Panlong said: "Since all departments have participated in the formulation of the plan, the possibility of too much change is very small, and if there is a change, the supervision and administration court set up by the emperor will not support idlers, even if we are all gone, the successor will definitely not be a person who only eats and does not do things." ”

At this time, Tianqi said: "Five years is too long, let's make a three-year plan first, and then we will change it to a five-year plan when we need to extend the time in the future." In that case, do we still have to analyze it? At the beginning, I only talked to Lord Liu that there were differences between the Qin and Han dynasties, and I didn't continue, does Lord Liu want to continue to talk about it? ”

Liu Zongzhou said: "The minister has this intention, the emperor, please see that we began to have disagreements, and then after discussion, there was a compromise plan, isn't it very good?" Any good method is established through the exchange of ideas, and those things that are universally supported as soon as they speak may not stand the test of time. ”

Tianqi said, "Okay, then what is Lord Liu going to say next?" ”

Liu Zongzhou said: "The minister began to ask about the rise and fall of the Han Dynasty, and the Tang Dynasty and the Han Dynasty were not much different, both were strong externally and finally split due to internal reasons. The Han Dynasty was preceded by a powerful but short-lived Qin Dynasty that unified the world, and the Tang Dynasty was also preceded by a Sui Dynasty that unified the world. Is there any connection between the Qin Dynasty and the Sui Dynasty, which caused the rebellion to swarm because of the construction of the Great Wall, and the death of the second dynasty in both dynasties? ”

Gao Panlong also said: "Yes, there was a short-lived new dynasty in the middle of the Han Dynasty, and there was also a short-lived Wuzhou in the middle of the Tang Dynasty, the Yellow Turban thieves rebelled in the Han Dynasty, and the Yellow Nest rebelled in the Tang Dynasty. ”

Tianqi said: "You still haven't said it, that is, the Qin Dynasty and the Sui Dynasty fell because of the reasons for the abolition of the long and the young, and I am very careful in this matter, so I set up two to see who will have crooked ideas." ”

Liu Zongzhou said: "Your Majesty, we won't talk about the Han and Tang dynasties, and we don't need to talk about other non-unified dynasties, because there is no comparison with the Ming Dynasty, among which it is worth mentioning the Great Song Dynasty." The Song Dynasty was very good to the people, it is said that the officials never killed the officials and rarely heard of the increase in taxes, and the freedom and equality that the emperor said was the most in line, but the Great Song Dynasty also died in the end, what does the emperor think of this? ”^-^^-^