This, Zhu Yunwen was asked, are Fu Youde really reliable? Is Uncle Wang really unreliable? If Fu Youde and others are unreliable, then what else do you have to protect them? Doesn't it leave a hidden danger?

The old emperor looked at Zhu Yunwen and said with a smile: "Yunwen, you didn't blurt it out as a matter of course, I am very pleased." I'm going to have a good talk with you today. In fact, I have been preparing these words for many years, and when your father was alive, I wanted to talk to him once, but unfortunately for various reasons, I didn't have time. Speaking of this, the old emperor wiped his tears with the sleeve of his robe, pressed his forehead with his hand, and sighed softly.

"Yun Wei, what do you think of your father?"

"......" Zhu Yunwen was puzzled: "The grandson doesn't dare to comment on his father." ”

"Well, I know you won't tell. I said, your father is gifted and intelligent, familiar with the scriptures and history, benevolent and filial piety, since the first year of Hongwu, I have arranged for him to be a great Confucian, Zhan Shifu is equipped with important ministers of the imperial court, such as Xu Da, Li Shanchang, Liu Ji, Song Lian and others, I am most satisfied with Xu Da, but unfortunately Xu Da is fighting until his death, and more importantly, your father does not like Xu Da, prefers Song Lian and others. ”

"When I found a problem, I couldn't change it. Your father completely believed in the Confucian system: 'The king regards the minister as a sibling, and the minister regards the king as the heart; The monarch regards the minister as a dog and a horse, and the minister regards the monarch as a countryman; The king regards his ministers as mustard, and the ministers regard him as an enemy. And 'there are the kings of Yao Shun above, and the people of Yao Shun below.' 'Yun Wen, what do you think?' ”

Zhu Yunwen said in his heart, there is nothing wrong with what his father said, the relationship between the monarch and the minister is mutual, but Zhu Yuanzhang must have asked for a reason, and thought about it and said: "My grandson thinks there are some problems, but I can't say it." ”

"Hehe, Yun Wei, this is where you are stronger than your father, although you don't say it, but you have a skeptical attitude towards these Confucian classics, which can be seen from your use of filial piety and Huang Zicheng. So I've always been very pampering with you, as long as you want to do it, as long as it's not too much of a problem, I will let you do it. ”

"Thank you, Grandpa."

"I ask you, don't talk about monarchs and ministers, just ordinary people, if you are good to others, will the other party definitely treat you well?"

The words of the old emperor made Zhu Yunwen feel excited, yes, in reality, there are people who are kind enough to be donkeys' liver and lungs, why wouldn't the monarch and the minister be like this?

The old emperor continued: "Judging from the two Song Dynasty, which dynasty and which generation is not the emperor regards the ministers as his heart and siblings, even if Cai Jing, Jia Nidao and others are not deeply trusted by the emperor? But why did the country die? ”

"The emperor is kind to his courtiers, and there are very few courtiers who are grateful, and most of them will feel that the emperor is mediocre and easy to deceive!"

"Yun Wei, do you believe it, if the emperors of later generations are confused by this set of things, then on the day when the country perishes, the minister will only become a courtier of the new dynasty, and will only say that the emperor of the previous dynasty is mediocre, but will not be loyal to the country."

Zhu Yunwen suddenly found that Zhu Yuanzhang was right, judging from later generations, didn't the Ming Dynasty treat scholars and doctors preferentially? But what did those scholars do when the Ming Dynasty was facing its demise? The gentry, who enjoyed the tax exemption, simply shaved their heads, wore braids, and went to be obedient.

In fact, this sentence cannot be said to be completely wrong, but the monarch and the minister know each other and regard it as a heart, which can only be a limited number of people, and must not be infinitely enlarged. It is very important for the monarch to grasp the proportion and scale. ”

"Well, Yun Wei understands, Yun Wei will remember." Zhu Yunwen nodded.

The old emperor looked at Zhu Yunwen's reaction, was very satisfied, and continued: "Let's talk about the problem between Fu Youde and your uncles. ”

"Many people think that I killed heroes and handed over power to my son, but this is not entirely true." Speaking of this, Zhu Yuanzhang smiled and said to Zhu Yunwen: "Do you think heroes should be special?" ”

"This," Zhu Yunwen, who has memories of later generations, intuitively said: "No, people can't lie on the merit book and eat the old book." ”

"Yun Wei, what you said is very right, but in fact it is difficult to do, among the founding heroes, there are no ministers or military generals, they are all people who disregard human life. In troubled times, human life is not as good as dogs, most of these heroes are full of blood, including me, I can't save people if I don't kill people in troubled times, so I can't ask for anything. But after the founding of the country, in a period of peace, there will still be people who kill people indiscriminately, how do you think I should deal with it? A life for a life? Or is it two lives worth one? Or is it three lives worth one? ”

"......" Zhu Yunwen was asked, how to answer this question?

"Zhu Liangzu falsely accused Panyu County Ling Daotong, I trusted him very much, so I executed Daotong, do you think he deserves to die? Hu Weiyong killed the driver of the car because of the death of his son, do you think he deserves to die? ”

"This," Zhu Yunwen felt that this was a quibble, nearly 100,000 people before and after the Hu Weiyong case and the Lan Yu case were all high-ranking officials and their families, but he also understood that the Lan Yu case was actually for himself, and the expansion of Hu Weiyong's case was to some extent for his father Zhu Biao, so it can be said that he and his father's books were angry and indirectly killed these people.

The old emperor's deep voice continued in the main hall: "Yun Wei, two big cases, I know that future generations will regard me as a tyrant, but who can really understand me? I'm afraid only my descendants will understand, and of course they may not, but I don't care. ”

"I started from cloth, the founding kings of all dynasties were born stronger than me, and Han Gaozu was also counted as a self-cloth, but he was also a petty official, and I couldn't even eat enough at that time. When I arrived in Guo Zixing's army, I had nothing to do but work hard, and later Guo Zixing married your imperial grandmother to me, I was actually a bit like a wealthy person at that time, but there was no other way to survive in the troubled times. ”

"I am very grateful to Guo Zixing, if it weren't for him, I would have starved to death, and most of my men came from Guo Zixing's Red Turban Army. After his death, in order to take power, I gradually got rid of Guo Zixing's descendants, and only then did I completely control the army. During this period, it was really a sword and a sword, and the conspiracy continued, during which I experienced two betrayals, one was Shao Rong, and the other was your uncle Zhu Wenzheng. ”

"I asked you just now, is Fu Youde more reliable than your Uncle Wang? You can't answer, I ask you again, what does it mean to be reliable? ”

"To be reliable is to be trustworthy and reliable." Zhu Yunwen replied.

"That's true, but it's useless. The key to reliability is that you know that he is credible, and he also knows that you believe in him, so that on the battlefield and in the court, you can assign him to do things, and he also knows that you trust him, so he will do his best, and will not retreat or hesitate in the face of interference and difficulties, so the so-called reliability is mutual, not unilateral. That's why I trust my son, who won't be punished too severely even if he makes a mistake. But for others, it doesn't matter if you tell him that something is wrong, will he believe you? Therefore, such people cannot be trusted. ”

"Shao Rong was very important in the army at that time, he was the representative of Guo Zixing's old department, so he didn't trust me, and I didn't trust him. After I got rid of Guo Zixing's descendants, he naturally had a rebellion, so I immediately made a decision and used Liao Yongzhong and Kang Duo to capture him. I remember the situation very well at that time, my old Haozhou department did not approve of this matter, and it was only when Chang Yuchun stood up and said that the rebels were unforgivable, and I executed Shao Rong. Chang Yuchun took refuge in me before crossing the river, not belonging to the old generals of Haozhou, but belonging to the old department before crossing the river, to him, Shao Rong is nothing, so he will speak, which is why I trust and promote Chang Yuchun. ”

"Zhu Wen is my nephew, he can be regarded as a cronie among my cronies, and I appointed him as the Metropolitan Governor of the Dadu Governor's Mansion, which can be said to be the highest military position, even above Xu Da. In the defense of Hongdu, he defended Chen Youliang's 600,000 army for 85 days, and lasted until I led the troops to help, and finally broke Chen Youliang and laid the foundation for me to unify the world. This can be said to be the most dangerous one of my life, Zhu Wenzheng has worked hard, but his military position has no room for promotion, so he can only give money and silk, but after the war, the rewards in the army are quite numerous. I thought that as a close relative, I would understand me and set his reward at the end, but who knew that it caused his dissatisfaction, connived at his subordinates to rob his wife and daughter, and the official wrote that he and Zhang Shicheng had colluded. As the chief general, I had to deal with it carefully, otherwise it would easily cause a catastrophe, but unfortunately, he passed away not long after being imprisoned. I also regretted this incident, so I named his son Zhu Shouqian as the king of Jingjiang. ”

Speaking of this, Zhu Yuanzhang looked at Zhu Yunwen and said, "Yunwen, do you understand what I mean?" ”

Zhu Yunwen thought about Zhu Yuanzhang's words for a while, Shao Rong is not the old department, although Zhu Wenzheng is a close relative, but his temperament is impatient, and he thought about it: "Whether the imperial grandfather means reliable depends on whether there is a foundation for trust, and whether it exceeds the limit of trust." ”

Zhu Yuanzhang smiled: "Yes, Yun Wei, you are right, I mean this." Now you have to judge who is more credible, Fu Youde or your Uncle Wang? ”

"This," Zhu Yunwen was stunned, according to this theory, he and Fu Youde do not have a basis of trust, but on the contrary, they have a basis of trust with Uncle Wang. But according to the memory of later generations, King Yan is indeed not credible, but it doesn't seem to be right, but the other kings are basically credible and obey the imperial edict.

"Grandpa Huang, then how did you use Fu Youde, Feng Sheng, and Wang Bi?"

Zhu Yuanzhang looked at his grandson's puzzled eyes, and couldn't help laughing, his grandson was a little too old, and now he finally showed some of his true colors, and said: "Yun Wei, this is another question, I ask you, why do they follow me?" ”

This, Zhu Yunwen thought for a while and said: "Maybe it's to survive, or maybe you want to show your ambitions in troubled times." ”

"Well, in the early stage, it must be for survival, and in the later stage, it must be for high-ranking officials and honoring ancestors. Since they have what they want, then I will give them these, and with the severe punishment and strict law, I can naturally use them. ”

"But the soldiers are murderous weapons, how can the imperial grandfather prevent them from rebelling?"

"In fact, it is not unusual, that is, there will be impermanent soldiers, soldiers are impermanent, our dynasty implements the guard system, soldiers are all land, have permanent property, will not rebel for no reason, and after many years of conquest, these generals' cronies are all in the field after the war, so as long as they do not rebel at that time, there will be no chance in the future."

"That is to say, the most dangerous thing is still your uncles, because they have commanded the army for many years, have many cronies, and have not moved their fiefdoms for a long time, and they are deeply rooted."

"This," the old emperor was asked, pondered for a while, and said, "But they have very few direct troops, and the other armies belong to the imperial court, so you can deploy them at will." ”

"What about Fu Youde?"

"Since the Lan Yu case, I no longer dare to let Fu Youde and Feng Sheng lead the army alone, although they don't have a direct army, but with their prestige, it is still easy to pull together a large army. If you send them out of Cyprus for half a year, and wait for them to come back, I'm afraid it will be difficult to control. You have no objection to reusing Fu Youde, but it is too dangerous to let them lead the army. At present, they and I have no basis for trust, so they are untrustworthy people and cannot be reused. ”

Zhu Yunwen found himself at a dead end, the only general was not at ease, the most suitable king of the kings, King Yan, was unwell, and although King Ning was eager to try, he was not convincing. So whether to build Suiyuan City or not?