He took a sip of his tea, and then said, "What do you have to say, you can say now." ”

Xu Guangqi said: "Your Majesty, missionaries cannot be expelled. The technological progress of Westerners is changing with each passing day, and the presence of missionaries can keep us abreast of the scientific and cultural level of the West. Moreover, in the opinion of the old minister, there are many merits in the doctrine of Catholicism. If they are allowed to preach, it will be good for me and my people. ”

Zhu Yanxi quit: "Your Majesty, the minister thinks that the Catholic priests do not allow us to worship our ancestors and the Confucian saints, and they have fallacies to confuse the public, and the ministers think that they should be strictly forbidden to preach, so as not to disturb people's hearts." ”

Xu Guangqi said: "Your Majesty, Catholicism is not allowed to worship Sage Confucius and his ancestors, and this matter is still negotiable. As for the matter of deceiving the public, the minister did not know about it. ”

Zhu Yanxi said: "Their so-called God is a great master who was born with gods and human beings at the beginning. Let's ask the great master, is there a tangible substance? Intangible? If there is a substance, where is the resurrection? And when there is no heaven and earth, where do you dwell? If it is intangible, then the so-called Tai Chi of Confucianism. Tai Chi is infinite, how can the clouds have love and dislike? Why does the cloud want people to serve and obey the commands? How can the cloud be a blessing and punishment? It is also extremely incomprehensible. ”

Xu Guangqi said: "God is tangible and intangible, but it is the embodiment of the way of heaven, and it is not the same concept as what we call Tai Chi and the like, so it cannot be understood from our point of view. Just as a fish can't understand why a tiger is powerful, a tiger can't understand how powerful a big fish in the sea is. ”

Zhu Yanxi wanted to refute again, but Zhu Youxiao said: "Stay, Zhu Shangshu's words are reasonable, and Xu Ge's words are equally reasonable." The son is silent, why don't you speak, because if you can't help people, you can do ghosts. Confucianism does not study unknowable issues, Confucianism studies the human ethics and rituals in the world, so Confucianism and religion do not conflict. Just like the old man of the Master, he also attached great importance to the matter of worship, and he once said, "Sacrifice is like being there, and sacrifice to God is like God." Therefore, Zhu Shangshu did not have to worry about the threat posed by Catholicism to the Confucian Society. ”

"And the doctrine of Catholicism, which I have also seen cursoly, is nothing more than an act of goodness, among the Ten Commandments, to honor one's parents; Don't kill; Do not commit sexual immorality; Don't steal; Don't testify; Do not love other people's wives; That's all pretty good. If everyone in the Ming Dynasty can do this, then the rule of the three generations is just around the corner. Of course, there are some Catholics that don't conform to my habits, so some people will have opinions, which is normal, but the doctrine can be modified. The introduction of Buddhism to Middle-earth has been very different from the original, except that the Catholic Church has a Holy See, and they do not agree to change it. ”

"How can this problem be solved? Quite simply, the establishment of a separate Holy See, of course, is a measure of last resort. Western Catholicism is not just a papal see, a doctrinal one, they also have internal differences, forming multiple denominations. So, if the current Holy See is not willing to revise its doctrine in China, then I don't mind cooperating with other sects, or even setting up another sect that is in line with our China. ”

Zhu Yanxi asked: "Your Majesty, since you are ready to establish another sect, why don't you directly modify our Taoism or Buddhism, wouldn't it be simpler?" ”

Zhu Youxiao shook his head, Western civilization was developed on the basis of monotheistic Christianity (Catholicism), and it can even be said that without Christianity, there would be no modern Western civilization. Since facts have proved that Western civilization has advantages in many aspects, he certainly hopes to use Christianity to educate China and make Chinese civilization grow into a great world civilization that is not stronger than Western civilization, or at least not weaker. Other polytheistic religions obviously do not have this effect.

But these were obviously inexplicable to the ministers, so he had no choice but to say: "As Xu Ge Lao said, we need Western science and technology now, and Catholicism is the only way for us to obtain this." Everyone has seen the superiority of Western firearms over broadswords and spears. ”

"And the people of our country, who think themselves to dwell in the middle of the world, regard all other peoples as savages, and as irrational animals. I heard that decades ago, when Westerners landed in Guangzhou, they scared away many citizens, and even the officials in the yamen did not dare to look at them. In our opinion, there is no other king, dynasty, or culture in the world to boast of. This ignorance makes us proud, but if it is always like this, then once the truth is revealed, the more we will feel inferior. Therefore, another role of Catholicism is to let us know that China is not the only civilized country in the world, but also other countries, and their civilizations also have merits. ”

"Ignorance is a source of fear, and if we can face them and understand them, then even if we have a conflict with them one day, we can deal with it calmly. Therefore, I want Catholic priests to preach, but only in a modified doctrine, especially not to prevent us from worshipping our ancestors and worshipping Kong. This matter is very troublesome, and I can only work hard Xu Ge is old. The threat of expulsion is only a means of forcing them to accept our terms. ”

Zhu Yanxi said: "Your Majesty, Xu Ge has always believed in religion, but I am afraid that I will not be able to take on this important responsibility." ”

Zhu Youxiao said with a smile: "Elder Xu Ge, every year during the Chinese New Year, have you ever worshiped your ancestors?" ”

Xu Guangqi said: "I dare not forget the matter of sacrificing to my ancestors. ”

Zhu Youxiao said: "Now Zhu Shangshu is relieved." ”

Ye Xianggao said: "Your Majesty, Catholic doctrine says that Jews are the chosen people, this statement makes us Chinese very uncomfortable, if it is changed to Chinese are the chosen people, it is a very good religion." ”

Xu Guangqi explained: "The Jews were called Shuhu Huihui during the Mongol Yuan Dynasty, and they belonged to the second class of Semu people, and they are now spurned by the Catholic Church, and they do not have the slightest appearance of the Chosen People. So this chosen people is actually useless. ”

Zhu Youxiao didn't think so, he said: "In fact, the Jews are only spurned by others, mainly because they don't have a country of their own. But if we Han Chinese are called the chosen ones, it will greatly enhance our national pride and pride. I think Ye Cifu's proposal is good. Xu Ge, you can fight for it, and you can be happy. ”

Ye Xianggao said: "Yes, yes, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work, it's amazing." ”

Zhu Youxiao said: "The role played by religion is very important, and we must not underestimate it. The last time the White Lotus Sect was together, I immediately ordered to suppress it with all my might, and this is the reason. This matter will depend on Xu Ge Lao and them to grind slowly. ”