The discussion will start after Mr. Su finishes!

"I'll throw bricks and lead the jade first", Xu Le then said, there must be a beginning, otherwise everyone will be restrained, first of all, how to look at the Hejianghuai Cultural Belt? My personal opinion is that the three cultural belts actually developed in parallel, from the Yellow River Basin, the Yangtze River Basin and the Huaihe River Basin are all parallel developments, especially in the early 5,000 years ago, there were occasional north-south exchanges but relatively little, with the beginning of the Yellow Emperor era began to increase north-south exchanges;

Second, how do you view the inheritance of civilization? The inheritance of civilization should not be based on only one standard, but should look at the overall development structure of society.

Third, how to view the derivation of words? I think it is wrong for the academic and archaeological circles to pay too much attention to the oracle bone inscriptions, and we should make more efforts to trace the origin of the upstream bones.

Fourth, how to look at the ruins we have come to this way, I mention one point here, I oppose Professor Jin Huai'an's determination that the Wangchenggang site is Xia Wangcheng's statement, one area is not enough, two positions are not right, three time points are not right, I personally think that it is at most just a companion or even a prison, is to imprison a special person, that is Yuxi!

Xu Le didn't say much, can't he say the pros and cons himself!

As soon as everyone heard this, Xu Le fired directly at Jin Huai'an, and Senior Brother Jin laughed!

And then everyone started!

Xu Fangping spoke secondly, "For the Huaihe River Cultural Belt, I think the first is that the archaeological community does not pay enough attention to it, and the other is that the Huaihe Cultural Belt is very embarrassing, how to delineate the scope, to the north to the Yellow River, to the south to the Yangtze River, so this corridor is an independent Huaihe Cultural Belt or belongs to the two rivers?"

Xu Le listened and nodded, this is indeed a fact!

"I won't say much about writing if I don't study much, but I'll talk about the definition and scope of civilization," said Senior Brother Xu, taking a sip of water, "The criteria for judging civilization are generally as follows: writing, metallurgy, city-state, or city, writing, and bronze. But in fact, there are many international academics, and this kind of standard is a non-mainstream standard, which has just spread to the East and is highly sought after by Chinese scholars.

In 1958, Crookhorn proposed that "two out of three" can be called civilization: in a certain area of settlement, there are already several interconnected towns, market towns or cities with a population of at least 5000 or more; They have already created an independent writing system or borrowed some foreign languages to form their own scripts; There are already monumental architectural monuments and central places for ceremonial activities. The First Civilization, which was later compiled by the Inger scholar Greene Daniel, was published in 1968 under the subtitle "The Archaeology of the Origins of Civilization".

Daniel has long been the head of the Department of Archaeology at the University of Kangqiao, and he mainly studies the archaeology of Bhazhou, while he also studies the history of archaeology, and has served as the chair of the World Conference on the History of Archaeology, which has been popularized almost all over the world because of his brother's great ability.

The 1970 General History of the World, which is more famous, says about civilization, "Anthropologists point out some characteristics of civilizations that distinguish them from Neolithic cultures. These characteristics include: urban centers, the pros and cons of the state established by the system, tribute or taxation, writing, the division of society into classes or hierarchies, huge buildings, various specialized arts and sciences, and so on. Not all civilizations possess all of these characteristics.

For example, the civilizations of the Andes in South America developed without writing, while the Egyptian civilizations and the Mayan civilizations did not have what is commonly referred to as cities. However, this set of characteristics can be used as a general guide in determining the nature of civilizations of various periods around the world. The result is not the same civilization, but an extremely diverse "type" of civilization. ”

Senior Brother Xu finally said, "I have the right to speak about the city, because I am a researcher of architectural history, and presided over the excavation of a number of cities, so I am more aware of the standard of this piece, according to the standard of the city, our ancient civilization of the city is to meet the standard of civilization, from the number of people is undoubted, so what really needs to be broken is not foreign countries, but our own own otherwise, this is the most terrible"!

Xu Le laughed and applauded, "Okay, Professor Xu is right", everyone burst into laughter, Xu Le was happy, he finally found the right person!

Mr. Qi stood up, and everyone was stunned, because Mr. Qi is not a person in the archaeological field, but he is an authority on the study of world history, everyone forgot about this!

"Everyone, let me say a few words, I first have to do a self-examination, I used to have a misunderstanding of the archaeological community, I think it is not just a matter of luck planing, who would not have the strength?" , He smiled and looked at everyone, "However, after I walked around this time, I found that I was wrong, it was too outrageous, I sincerely thank everyone, if it weren't for you, there really wouldn't be so much proof of us", Mr. Qi bowed deeply to all the people present, and Mr. Su took the lead in applauding, "Okay, Lao Qi"!

"Let me talk about my opinion, and then Professor Xu said, I have a lot of feelings about how the world civilization is judged!

First of all, it is true that standards such as "cities, writing, and complex ceremonial architecture" have been popularized abroad, but where is metal smelting or bronze? In fact, metallurgy is seen as a force for technological innovation like a horse-drawn carriage, rather than as a feature of civilization, since it is the barbarians who are best at using both of these to plunder civilized countries. Touting bronze as one of the three major standards of civilization is nothing more than the self-amusement of a few foreigners and the majority of Chinese people.

Later, in 1990, the "Illustrated Guide to the History of Human Civilization" generally discussed early civilization according to the idea of "cities, writing, and complex ceremonial architecture", and they also regarded metallurgy and horse-drawn carriages as two major technological forces as a means of conquest and expansion.

In addition, there is an important concept here that is about the four ancient civilizations, the original four civilization concepts are: Pharaoh Eyro, Barbilonian Two Rivers, Vedic Elephants, and Zhou Dynasty China.

The so-called 3,000-year-old country and 3,000 years of great changes, pushing forward 3,000 years before 1900, is it 1100 BC that is the century when the Zhou Dynasty was first built?

The times are advancing, excavation is advancing, so earlier civilizations have been explored, Pharaoh Eyji is still standing still, there is Sumer-Akkadian before Barbilon, so it surpassed ancient Egypt in one fell swoop, and won the status of the birthplace of human civilization, and there was Harappa before the Vedic statue, and the trend of catching up with ancient Egypt was obvious.

That is to say, after a hundred years of new discoveries, the ranking of several major civilizations has changed, Sumerian-Akkad-Barbilon, Pharaoh Eyji, Harappa-Vedic Elephant, so how should we position the Chinese civilization? Only before the Zhou generation, a Shang generation was added, and Erlitou was not at all like Sumer and Harappa, which were far from the Babylonian and Vedic dynasties.

There was also an ancient Greek city-state that was originally very backward, because of the excavations of Crete (Minoan) and Mycenae, many people raised it to compete with the Chinese civilization for the fourth position.

However, have you ever thought that Sumer, Harappa, and Minos are not directly related to Babylon, Vedas, and ancient Greece, so why use them to lengthen ancient civilizations? If this is the case, can you really add the Lingjiatan, Jiahu, and Pei Ligang you saw this time before Xia Shangzhou? ”

Everyone applauded, this is to study the history of world development, Xu Le is a little ashamed, he is only thinking about things in China now, but he still hasn't gone out, two rivers, Ganges!

Then everyone started to get enthusiastic!

Mr. Su was very happy to see that everyone's argument was in full swing, and he also began to speak, "Everyone knows my point of view, I have always advocated the concept of starry sky, and finally the way of respecting the king, from the ancient kingdom to the Fang country to the kingdom and finally to the empire, so there is a question Is it that for world history, our ancient kingdom era has actually entered the sequence of civilization?" If purely according to the standard, the most accurate guarantee of the text is the oracle bone inscription, but in the ancient era we have many other factors, so I think this time has actually represented the differentiation of classes, has become an independent person, not the concept of the ancient commune, so I put forward a standard, called the awakening of human self-identity is the sign of civilization", Xu Le felt very interesting when he heard this assertion, he repeated it twice in his mind!

Then I listened to Mr. said, "And I don't say much about the civilization belt, I want to talk about the things in Erlitou, Erlitou is very embarrassing, embarrassed to the end of Xia or Shang, if it is Xia In addition to the green pine dragon, the city and some carvings, where is the real meaning?" If it is Shang, it is obviously beyond the scale of Shang, but I still think that the Erlitou site is an important site for the exploration of Xia culture, so the Erlitou site is likely to be the capital site of the middle and late Xia Dynasty, which is based on historical records, because the early Xia period was in the Dengfeng Wangchenggang site (Yudu) and Xinqi site (Xia Qizhidu):

The ancient book "Bamboo Book Chronicle" records: "Taikang lives in the village, Yi lives in it, and Ji also lives in it."

This "Bamboo Book Chronicle" also contains: "Zhongkang is the emperor, according to the throne. ”

"Gu Di Zhi" cloud: "The old city is fifty-eight miles southwest of Gong County, Luozhou, and Gai Ji lives. ”

"Historical Records: Xia Benji" cloud: "Taikang lives in the town, Yi also lives in it, and Ji lives in it." Yi is Hou Yi, a leader of the Dongfang Yi tribe, he took advantage of Taikang's lack of Taoism and Xia Min's resentment, entered the house, ruled and refused to be too Kang outside. Taikang died, and Fu Zhongkang was on the throne, and he was still in the throne.

"Historical Records: The Biography of Sun Tzu Wu Qilie" contains: "The residence of Xia Ji, the left river Ji and the right Taihua, Yique in the south, and the sheep intestine in the north. ”

"Chinese Zhou Yu Shang" contains: "Xiyi, Luo exhausted, and Xia died. ”

Therefore, Erlitou is the capital of the Xia Dynasty and is based on historical records; Secondly, from the perspective of the inheritance relationship of archaeological excavations: Erlitou culture→ Erligang culture (early Shang), Yinxu culture (late Shang), →→ Zhou culture.

The time and inheritance relationship of Erlitou culture Before the Shang Dynasty, the Erlitou culture undoubtedly corresponded to the Xia Dynasty, so there is an archaeological basis for the Erlitou site to be the capital of the Xia Dynasty.

But why Erlitou may have something to do with Shang Du, the reason is the error of the site dating technology, the latest calibrated carbon 14 dating, the age of the Erlitou site is 1750 BC to 1600 BC, that is to say, the late Erlitou site has entered the Shang era (provided that the Xia, Shang and Zhou dynasties are accurate), and the historical books just record that there is the capital of the Shang Dynasty, and the Xi'an of Shang Tang is also in Luoyang Yanshi:

"Historical Records Collection Explanation": Huangfu Mi said: "(Shang Tang) is all Bo, and now Yuzhou Yanshi is also."

"Kuodizhi" cloud: "The ancient city of Boyi is in the west of Yanshi County, Luozhou, the ruins of the emperor, and the capital of Shangtang.

"The Bamboo Book Chronicle" contains: "In the first year of Zhong Ding, Xin Chou was the throne, and he moved to the hustle and bustle. ”

"Historical Records, Yin Benji, Justice" quotes the cloud of "Jin Taikang Diji": "'There is Bohan in the south of the corpse township, there is a city in the east, and Taijia is also placed'. According to the discipline: The corpse township is five miles southwest of Yanshi County, Luozhou."

Therefore, whether the Erlitou site is the capital of the Xia Dynasty or the capital of the Xia Shang Dynasty has not been determined due to the limitations of dating technology and limited archaeological excavation data. The only thing that is certain is that the Erlitou culture was the culture of the first wide-area royal power on the East Asian continent, whether it was Xia or Shang!

Therefore, based on the above statement, I do not recommend that Erlitou be a summer ruin, but it should be called 'Xia Shang Luo City' or 'Xia Shang Luo Du' is more suitable"!

When Mr. Su finished speaking, Mr. Qi took the lead, followed by Xu Le's crazy applause, Mr. is Mr., Xu Le has memorized most of them so far, but the official history has not memorized a few books, but Mr. only "Records of the Territory" and "Chinese" have not memorized everything else, in terms of living learning and systematic arrangement, Xu Le really has great shortcomings!

He constantly crosses his own questions through the words of his husband!

The discussion is getting more and more intense, and when it comes to the back, they are really about to quarrel, even the juniors have participated, these juniors are not enough in the literature, but the ideas are more open-minded and put forward one by one, although it is not systematic but it is still very inspiring, everyone is very happy, but Xu Le feels that the juniors must strengthen the study of historical classics!

Qingning generally doesn't participate in this kind of discussion, more listening, and in the end even she spoke, "I have more of these contents from some chats and conversations between my grandfather and Xu Le", some people don't know Qingning's identity, why did her grandfather come out, Mr. Qi smiled, "This is my granddaughter", everyone applauded, most of them didn't dare to go up to talk when they looked at this beautiful woman, thinking that it was Xu Le's girlfriend and no one asked, only today I learned that this is Mr. Qi's granddaughter!

"So I don't have more professional understanding, but based on my years of study and travel abroad, I just say a feeling, in fact, foreign countries don't care what you think, they just care about what they think, if you want him to obey you, then you have to be better than him, which means that he has been a double standard king for a long time, and what is beneficial to himself will follow him, and he will not admit it if it is not beneficial to himself, and will even directly block you and not let you speak, therefore, say it out loud, say more, Keep saying that it is the best way to crack, when you talk too much, he listens a lot, gets used to it, and finally that's it"!

Everyone laughed, sometimes thinking that this is indeed the case!

Just like Senior Brother Xu said just now, does the Mayan civilization have a city-state?