A few days before New Year's Day, Song Weiyang received three reporters at home.

One is Hu Song, a text reporter for the "Lookout" weekly, Pang Anming, a photojournalist for the "Lookout" weekly, and the other is Liu Ziran, a senior sister who graduated from Fudan.

"Hello Hu Ji!" Song Weiyang took the initiative to shake hands.

"Hello Mr. Song!" said Hu Song.

Song Weiyang said again: "Hello Pang Ji!"

"Mr. Song, hello!" Pang Anming was fiddling with his camera, and when he heard the greeting, he hurriedly stepped forward to shake hands with Song Weiyang. He used to interview various celebrities and dignitaries, and they all honestly stood next to him and took pictures, and none of the interviewees took the initiative to shake his hand.

In the end, Song Weiyang joked with Liu Ziran: "Senior sister, you are good, you have become a Xinhua News Agency reporter." ”

Liu Ziran said with a smile: "There are many reporters from Xinhua News Agency, and I am just a reporter from the Shenghai Branch. ”

"Lookout" belongs to the weekly magazine of Xinhua News Agency, and this interview was arranged by Liu Ziran. She also came over to listen and ask a few questions, and then wrote a manuscript and posted it in the local newspaper, Song Weiyang's current interview is particularly difficult to make an appointment, even if Liu Ziran is a senior sister, she can't make an appointment.

Hu Song got straight to the point and said: "Mr. Song, there are many content sections in "Lookout", and this interview with you will be placed in the 'People' section. This section is dedicated to reporting on the protagonists or key figures in major news events at home and abroad, as well as high-newsworthy figures who have an impact on China and international affairs. The theme of this interview revolves around the concept of Internet Web 2.0, please take a look at the preset version of the interview. If there's anything inconvenient to answer, or a question that you find sensitive, we can bypass it. ”

Song Weiyang took the preset draft of the interview and skimmed through it, nodded and said, "There is no problem." ”

"Okay, let's get started now?" Hu Song asked.

Song Weiyang smiled and said, "Yes, let's take it lightly." ”

Hu Song did not directly ask a formal question, but said in a homely manner: "I've received a lot of interview invitations recently, right?"

Song Weiyang smiled helplessly: "Not only interview invitations, but also various speech invitations, and the invitations every day are in double digits." Tsinghua University and Peking University also invited me to give a speech a few days ago, but I pushed me down, and if I promised this one, I had to agree to that one, so how could I have so much free time? I also turned down Fudan's invitation, but who knew that the old president called me directly, so I couldn't push it off. After doing this interview with you, I will go to Fudan in the afternoon, and I would not be in the limelight if I knew it. ”

"Speaking of being in the limelight, there are a lot of reports about you in the United States right now," Hu Song asked, "Has the American media contacted you?"

Song Weiyang said: "Yes, the "Time" magazine and "People" magazine in the United States have sent emails and want to give me an exclusive interview. Even gossip magazines like "America Weekly" join in the fun, and good celebrity scandals are not reported, so what are you doing to provoke me?"

"Time Magazine's interview?" Hu Song asked with interest, "Have you agreed?"

Song Weiyang shook his head and said, "I refused." ”

Hu Song finally showed a surprised expression: "Being able to be featured in Time magazine is an honor for many people, why would you refuse?"

"Because the recent reports in the American media make me feel uncomfortable," Song Weiyang said, "there is a big invisible hand that is manipulating American public opinion and the NASDAQ, and I have become a tool held by this big hand." I don't want to be taken advantage of, and I don't want to be used as a false name, because the American media is killing me. ”

Hu Song smiled: "You have always been so sensible?"

Song Weiyang said: "There are very few times when I am irrational. ”

Hu Song casually wrote a few words in his shorthand notebook, sat up straight and said, "Let's get down to business, how did you come up with the idea of proposing the concept of Web 2.0?"

Song Weiyang asked rhetorically, "Have you heard of Kevin Kelly?"

Hu Song thought for a moment: "The founding editor-in-chief of Wired magazine in the United States?"

"Yes, it's him," Song Weiyang nodded, "Kevin Kelly published a book of "Out of Control" in 1994, and when Hollywood made "The Matrix", the director required all the crew members, including the actors, to watch "Out of Control" at least once. ”

Hu Song asked, "What is the connection between "Out of Control" and Web 2.0?"

Song Weiyang said: "The book 'Out of Control' is not just an Internet book, it covers many aspects such as society, economy, culture, history and so on. Kevin Kelly connects life and man-made things in the book, he says that life is becoming more and more stylized, and man-made things continue to show life characteristics, he calls life forms and man-made things with the characteristics of life forms 'superlife', and the evolution of superlife and the connection between life forms are through the Internet, I think the inspiration for "The Matrix" probably came from this book. ”

Hu Song knew that Song Weiyang hadn't finished speaking, so he smiled and nodded: "In 1994, this is a very advanced concept." ”

"It's ahead of its time," Song Weiyang laughed, "Kevin Kelly said that the connection between heavenly and man-made things will become closer and closer, and when he explained this connection, he mentioned the bee colony effect. Not a single bee or ant is controlling the colony, but there is an invisible hand, a hand emerging from a large number of dull members, that controls the entire colony. Its magic lies in the fact that quantitative change causes qualitative change, from a collective of individual shallots to a collective of clusters, as long as the number of bugs is increased, so that a large number of bugs are gathered together, so that they can communicate with each other. At a certain stage, when the complexity reaches a certain level, the cluster will emerge from the bugs, and the inherent attributes of the bugs contain the cluster attributes. Note that the keywords for this content are 'emergence' and 'clustering'!"

This topic is obviously a bit brain-burning, Hu Song has never watched "Out of Control" before, he subconsciously asked: "So, Web 2.0 is a product of the bee colony effect?"

Song Weiyang nodded and said, "Yes, an individual in society is equivalent to an ant or a bee. Kevin Kelly says that you can never find out the characteristics of a bee with a cyclotron and an X-ray machine. It's the same with people, if you look at an individual alone, whether he is wise or ignorant, whether he is knowledgeable or ignorant, he is just a single person. However, the Internet can connect countless individuals, and in the network, people can communicate with each other, inspire each other, and co-create, so it forms clusters. And when the cluster forces are fused, the characteristics of 'emergence' appear. Therefore, I think that the concept of Web 2.0 is actually the honeycomb effect acting on the Internet, the network is a hive, and netizens are bees. ”

Hu Song asked, "Is this all Kevin Kelly's theory?"

Song Weiyang said: "It can be regarded as one. Kevin Kelly says in the book that as the number of members increases, the possible interactions between two or more members grow exponentially. When the degree of connectivity is high and the number of members is large, the dynamic characteristics of group behavior are generated. Now that P2P technology is becoming more and more mature, it is enough to support the swarm effect of the Internet. Every increase in the number of Internet users has led to an exponential increase in the development of Internet content, and the results of the Internet in the coming year may be worth the achievements of the past decade, which is a kind of 'emergence' characteristic. That's why I say that the new era of the Internet is coming, and the prosperity of the Web 2.0 era will far exceed that of the Web 1.0 era. ”

Hu Song said: "Can you elaborate on the characteristics of Web 2.0 in more detail?"

"I've already talked about the basic characteristics at the Internet conference," Song said, "and I'm going to retell Kevin Kelly's appearance in Runaway He argues that swarm systems have the following benefits: first, adaptability, in which swarm systems can survive or adapt to new excitation signals when some of their components fail, second, evolution, in which individuals in a swarm experience and evolve from one individual to another, eventually triggering swarm evolution, and third, infinity, in swarm systems, positive feedback can lead to order increase, spontaneous order can create more order, information can breed more information, and life can reproduce more life, and fourth, novelty……”

Hu Song asked, "Is there any disadvantage to the cluster system?"

Song Weiyang said: "Yes, let's use the Internet as an example. Non-optimality, in the past, the website controlled the network, and in the Web 2.0 era, everyone created the network. In the absence of central brain control, the distribution of network resources is chaotic, redundant content is proliferated, and the repetitive efforts of netizens and programmers are everywhere. There is also uncontrollability, in the era of Web 2.0, no one is an authority, everyone is a hero, capital and programmers cannot control the direction of development, can only follow the development trend of the Internet. There is also a non-negotiability ......"

Hu Song said: "So Kevin Kelly predicted the arrival of the Web 2.0 era?"

"You can say yes or no," Song said, "Kevin Kelly's ideological discourse, which belongs to the basic theory of Web 2.0, is both clear and vague, and he didn't know that P2P technology could develop to this extent." It can be said that Kevin Kelly sees the general direction, but the details will develop beyond his imagination. But Kevin Kelly has a particularly subtle saying, he said that the group system belongs to the 'wisdom of the crowd', which sums up the Web 2.0 era, everyone is ordinary, but everyone is a hero. ”

Hu Song said: "Do you like to read very much? It seems that the book "Out of Control" has not yet been published in China. ”

"I read the original English version," Mr. Song said, "and Kevin Kelly was a big influence in the Western computer and networking world, and Mr. Jobs was a loyal reader of Wired magazine even before he founded it, in the '80s. ”

Hu Song said: "Whether it is the cluster effect or the bee colony effect, this seems to be a sociological theory. ”

Song Weiyang smiled: "I majored in sociology in college. ”

Hu Song said: "Can it be understood that your proposal of Web 2.0 is not based on computer and Internet knowledge, but from your sociological thinking?"

"So to speak. Song Weiyang said.

Hu Song said: "Will Web 2.0 have an impact on the real society?"

Song Weiyang said: "I think that Web 2.0 and real society influence each other. However, in the era of Web 3.0, the Internet and the real society will be integrated and inseparable, and it will be difficult to survive in society without using the Internet. ”

Hu Song smiled: "Will you die if you don't go online?"

Song Weiyang said: "It's not enough to die, but it's definitely out of touch with society, like a reclusive monk in Zhongnan Mountain." Human beings are collective, social animals......"

Hu Song soon discovered that he didn't know if he would be out of touch with society if he didn't go online, but his interview today was out of touch with the preset draft. He originally wanted to talk to Song Weiyang about science and technology and the Internet, but he never went back in the direction of sociology and philosophy, and he couldn't get it back several times when he wanted to correct it, Song Weiyang always chatted and talked about sociology and philosophy, and even finally ran in the direction of psychology.

Well, when Song Weiyang was studying at Fudan, psychology was also a compulsory subject.

When the topic became more and more in-depth, Hu Song was almost overwhelmed, and he didn't know how to answer the question, so he could only guide Song Weiyang to continue. In the end, the two met in the field of communication, which was Hu Song's original specialty, and he was finally able to ask more targeted questions.

Returning to the magazine, Hu Song wrote at the beginning of the article: "Song Weiyang is not a pure businessman, he is more like a philosopher, sociologist, psychologist, and he also has a very deep understanding of communication......

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