Xu Haodong said: "Water is originally transparent, it is non-hydro substances that pollute water, power is originally transparent, corruption is not because of power, it is those who hold power." There is an old Chinese saying that water can carry a boat and can also capsize a boat, and in my opinion, power can make people successful and famous, but it can also make people destroy themselves. Water has various forms, it can be undisturbed, it can be magnificent, it can be devastating, it can also be tender, it can benefit all people, it can also bring disaster to the country and the people, isn't it the same with power? ”

Maria said, "But, you say it beautifully, but the pursuit of power is still desired." ”

Xu Haodong said: "Of course, officialdom is like a battlefield, you can not enter, but since you are in officialdom, you must choose to fight, either win or lose." ”

"I've heard that you divide officials into two categories, bureaucrats and technocrats," Maria said. ”

Xu Haodong said: "The words of one family are not worth talking about, the national conditions are different, this is in China, this issue is a bit sensitive,"

Maria said, "Okay, go ahead and talk about yourself, have you ever been corrupt?" For example, have you received cigarettes and alcohol, eaten and played, opened the back door and approved the slips? ”

Xu Haodong said: "(Haha) That's a good question, I want to say that if I haven't done it, people all over the world won't believe it." But the number of times is counted in the single digits, when he was the head of the township and the secretary of the township party committee, and when he was the deputy director and director of the municipal government office, he also did it, but after he became the deputy mayor and executive vice mayor, he never did it again. ”

"You don't smoke, netizens know it, you don't go out to eat, drink and have fun, netizens know it, but you don't drink, netizens don't believe it," Maria said. ”

Xu Haodong said: "(Haha) The eyes of netizens are bright, I drink, but I don't drink outside, and of course I don't drink in the canteen of the unit, because I blush when I drink." ”

Maria said, "Do you drink alone at home? ”

Xu Haodong said: "A person basically doesn't drink, and only drinks a little when relatives, friends, colleagues and subordinates come, but there is such a situation, because my family is poor, so people who generally come to my house for dinner, (haha), will bring their own alcohol, except for leaders." ”

Maria said: "No wonder you have the nickname 'slamming the door', so do you want us to bring our own drinks when you invite us to dinner tonight?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "(Haha) Originally, yes, but you are a foreign friend, so I had to pay out of my own pocket." ”

Maria said: "Thank you, let's continue, Secretary Xu, I have such a question, you Chinese officials are generally very low-key, but you have become an Internet celebrity, you belong to an alternative, don't you know the truth of shooting a bird in the head?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "I may be different from others as a cadre, I am a red heart and two preparations, let me do it, I will do it, try my best to do it, if I don't let me do it, I won't do it, in our Chinese words, this is called no desire is rigid, in its position to seek its own government, not in its position not to seek its government." ”

Maria said: "Secretary Xu, you are in a normal state of mind, I want to ask a bold question, do you think there is serious corruption in China today?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "Your question is a bit big, I am just a county-level leader, the secretary of the Yunling Municipal Party Committee, and I only answer questions within Yunling City." ”

Maria said, "Well, do you think there is serious corruption in Yunling City?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "It's not serious, but very serious, Miss Maria, you have been in our Yunling for a long time, you should know more deeply, I can say that our Commission for Discipline Inspection is the busiest department this year." ”

Maria said: "I know, a lot of people have been arrested, and many more people have been investigated, so has the corruption situation been reversed?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "It should be said that it has basically been curbed, and now it is the stage of consolidating and deepening the anti-corruption. ”

"Can you tell me what is causing the very high level of corruption? ”

Xu Haodong said: "Freezing three feet, not a day's cold, most of our current anti-corruption is to pay for the past." This shows that the fight against corruption must be tackled from time to time, just as I said earlier, power is water, and water can only be kept clean when it flows. ”

Maria said: "I heard that you proposed to treat both the symptoms and the root causes of anti-corruption, while your superiors proposed to treat the symptoms first and then the root causes, is this a bit contradictory? ”

Xu Haodong said: "There is no contradiction at all, our anti-corruption in Yunling is actually to treat the symptoms first and then the root cause, but we are trying to treat the symptoms and the root cause at the same time, and the establishment of the Municipal Supervision Commission is an important part of the root cause." I believe that we have achieved 20 to 30 percent of the goals set by the central authorities of not daring to be greedy, not wanting to be greedy, and not being greedy, and now is the best time to try to treat the symptoms and the root causes at the same time. ”

"Can you tell us about what measures you have taken to combat the root causes of corruption? ”

Xu Haodong said: "Is this ......?"

Maria said: "Don't hesitate to share your experience. ”

Xu Haodong said: "Actually, our measures are not new, they are purely new wine in old bottles, for example, the system of intra-party democratic life meetings has existed a few years ago, but we have increased the open system, live broadcast and video broadcasting, and put the intra-party democratic life meeting under the supervision of the masses, which is combined with the mass line." In the past, many party branches held democratic life meetings behind closed doors, hello, I am good, everyone is good, and it is a mess of harmony, just a formality, and has no practical effect. Now it's different, the eyes of the masses are bright, if you don't play with flowers seriously, don't say that the people don't agree, the organization and leadership will clean you up. ”

Maria said, "It must have worked well." ”

Xu Haodong said: "Quite good, recently we have added a new link, when the democratic life meeting is held, the network connection, so that the audience can ask anonymous questions, if the cadres tell lies and tell clichés, they can be exposed on the spot, not to mention, with this trick, the quality of the democratic life will be much better." ”

Maria said: "Why be anonymous? ”

Xu Haodong said: "It is to prevent retaliation, after all, the current political ecology is not very common, anonymity is only a stopgap measure, and when the conditions are ripe in the future, we will invite the masses to directly participate in the party's democratic life meetings, which is a form of direct supervision of the party's grassroots organizations." ”

Maria said, "This is your first move. ”

Xu Haodong said: "Secondly, we will strengthen the implementation and enforcement of systems and regulations, let me give you an example, I have been deputy mayor and executive vice mayor for four and a half years, a total of five times to declare personal income and family property and other matters, but no one has come to me to verify or use other methods to verify, this system is useless." Our current practice is to verify everyone's information, investigate any problems, and report them, and hand over the relevant system to specific people for implementation. I call this practice the road section cleaning method, like the sanitation workers manage the road, the implementation of the section to the person, clear responsibility. ”

Maria said, "How's it going?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "It's very good, because the sense of responsibility is strong, no one dares to slack off, for example, the personal income and family property of the members of the four sets of teams in our city, there are two people who are responsible for management, I call it a small job and a big power, manage it well, the organization will reward you, you don't care, the organization will hold you accountable, if you don't manage it well, the organization will also hold you accountable." ”

"My understanding is to get the rules and regulations moving, rather than sleeping in a drawer," Maria said. ”

Xu Haodong said: "Yes, people are alive, and rules and regulations should also be alive, so that rules and regulations can play a role anytime and anywhere." ”

Maria said, "Anything else?" ”

Xu Haodong said: "In addition, it is necessary to strengthen the self-management and guidance management of cadres outside the eight-hour period. I am a staunch defender of the eight-hour workday, and I used to work overtime rarely when I had a sick wife, and now I am against it. However, I feel that it is necessary to strengthen the management of cadres' activities outside of eight hours, with self-management as the main thing and guidance management as the supplement. The most intolerable thing I can tolerate is to run to places where we eat, drink, and have fun after work, and my idea is to organize activities such as reading clubs so that cadres can reduce the opportunities and time for engaging in unhealthy tendencies. ”

"I seem to have heard that you want to create an environment where cadres don't have the opportunity and time to engage in corruption," Maria said. ”

Xu Haodong said: "Yes, we are implementing the cadre examination system, and now it is held once every six months, and all cadres, including me, must participate. Just like a university, in addition to the college entrance examination before entering the university, there should also be an examination for each semester, and if there are too many examinations, if you do not do well in the examination, you will be laid off, and if your grades are too bad, you will lose face, and this will force cadres to spend time to strengthen their studies. ”

Maria said: "Secretary Xu, you also have a positive and negative theory about time and corruption, you can explain it to us." ”

Xu Haodong said: "It's not a theory, it's just an idea of mine, I don't know if it's right or not." The Municipal Commission for Discipline Inspection has investigated and dealt with quite a number of cadres this year, and I have requested and entrusted the functional departments of the Commission for Discipline Inspection to conduct a questionnaire survey on these cadres who have been investigated and punished, with a total of more than 30 questions. At the same time, we used the same questionnaire to survey all cadres in the city. Then, using the big data technology of the computer, the answers to these questionnaires were analyzed in detail, and some judgments were drawn. First, everyone has about three hours and twenty minutes of boredom every day, except for the necessary time for work, eating, and sleeping, and the less boredom time, the less likely it is that corruption will occur. Second, the more time you spend reading each day, the less likely you are to be corrupt. Three, the more time you spend with your family, the less likely you are to be corrupt. Fourth, the longer you have been single, the greater the possibility of corruption, and the greater the possibility of corruption in a normal family, such as divorce and hidden marriage. Fifth, the richer the nightlife, the greater the potential for corruption, and the more social activities, the greater the potential for corruption......"

Maria said, "(giggles) Secretary Xu, you are also single." ”

Xu Haodong said: "I have no way, but I am trying to find a way to solve my own problems. ”

Maria said: "Secretary Xu, are there any other anti-corruption and anti-corruption measures?" ”