To be honest, before interviewing this one, Chu Yulin and Wang Fan were still a little mentally prepared.

To be able to walk to this position at the age of 28, good eloquence is definitely inevitable.

Of course, for Chu Yulin and Wang Fan, they can see the sea of people with good eloquence, and there are countless people with good eloquence and substance, but there are not many people who are eloquent and have things to say, and they can be combined with practical work to speak sharply and profoundly, so it is not too much.

If you add to that the idea is very original, it is only a handful.

I have to say that this one has several items.

The most important thing is novelty.

You have to be new, you can stand out, you can't get out of the old rut, pick up people's teeth, no matter how good you do in other aspects, it is easy to be out of the crowd, because others can do it.

The so-called reform is also a kind of innovation.

From top to bottom, especially the central government, why does it attach so much importance to reform and innovation, is to explore a path that has not been found before, a new path that can bring changes to things.

This explanation of vitality and efficiency gave Chu Yulin and Wang Fan a deeper understanding of Sha Zhengyang's thinking.

This is not aimed at a specific enterprise, but more like a general problem in the current reform of state-owned enterprises.

What is the goal of the reform of state-owned enterprises, which is to reduce the number of employees to increase efficiency and enhance competitiveness.

A creative vitality of the enterprise team, is the foundation of enterprise competitiveness, rather than a simple attrition, often those who are still recruiting employees of the enterprise is really full of vitality in the expansion stage of the enterprise, the management team to do is to create vitality, rather than just staring at the attrition, this is the foundation, attrition is only the end.

Of course, Sha Zhengyang also reversed the topic later, not that the downsizing is not important, but the bloated institutions and personnel bring not only the increase in costs, but more importantly, the decline in vitality, which is the key.

If you can put this part of the redundant people in another environment and make them energetic and efficient, everyone can do their best, that's the highest level.

However, this is only an ideal state and can only be pursued as a goal.

Chu Yulin and Wang Fan both found it very interesting to talk to this guy, this guy is constantly washing their minds with new ideas, new words and new thinking, and if you chase his train of thought, you will always be unconsciously brought in.

Sha Zhengyang waited patiently for the two to digest their own views, he didn't think that these two could be calm in front of the baptism of advanced views, if they could really be indifferent, then they had more powerful dimensionality reduction blows to prepare for them.

Three minutes later, the two animal kings exchanged glances, indicating that they had almost digested each other's views in this round.

In fact, they can still roughly understand the vitality and efficiency of the first sentence, but the fairness and people's livelihood of the second sentence make them a little unable to understand.

It doesn't sound like a point of view that needs to be put forward for corporate reform, so they're eager to hear what this guy has to say about it.

"Fairness and people's livelihood, my understanding is not only to the enterprise reform itself, but should be an attitude orientation to our country in the development of the entire economic system, well, how to say, my understanding, state-owned enterprises and other types of enterprises, such as foreign-funded enterprises, private enterprises, township enterprises are different, so this is reflected in what, if it is reflected in the country's policy and resources in favor and concessions, then state-owned enterprises should naturally bear the burden of foreign enterprises, Private enterprises and township enterprises have more responsibilities and obligations, and this should be a mechanism for matching responsibilities and rights. ”

Sha Zhengyang's words made Chu Yulin and Wang Fan's eyes light up, and the recorded pen was even more fluttering, but his mouth did not stop: "Mr. Sha, you mean that state-owned enterprises should have greater responsibilities and actions than enterprises of other natures, well, is what you said about fairness and people's livelihood?"

"Almost, that's probably what it means. Sha Zhengyang Erlang put down his leg and changed his left foot to his right foot to make his body more comfortable.

I have to admit that the two reporters in front of me are the most sensitive people I have seen in the media industry before, and they can quickly follow their own ideas to capture their own thoughts and intentions, and this kind of conversation makes both parties very comfortable.

"Mr. Sha, can you interpret it in more detail?" Chu Yulin took the initiative.

"Absolutely. Sha Zhengyang nodded, "Fairness, my understanding is that the state is formulating economic policies, well, especially when policies related to the development of enterprises, we should adhere to the principle of fairness, I think it is relatively fair to foreign enterprises and domestic enterprises, as far as the current situation is concerned, foreign enterprises have special advantages, and domestic enterprises, especially private enterprises, may be more stringent in all aspects, which may be related to the previous central government's definition and positioning of the private economy is still somewhat vague, I think this problem may be solved after the 15th National Congress." ”

Terrible!

Chu Yulin and Wang Fan glanced at each other, and they both saw each other's shock and admiration from each other's eyes.

It is not easy to find and capture the subtle changes in this, and to be able to assert that this problem will be resolved after the 15th Party Congress, which shows that the young man in front of him is not inferior to those provincial-level leading cadres in terms of political smell.

"Mr. Sha, do you mean that the country's current policy is more favorable to foreign investment, but may be unfair to domestic enterprises?" Wang Fan's question was more acute and sharp.

"Well, Mr. Wang, your question is not very friendly, this is to trap me in injustice. ”

Sha Zhengyang laughed, although there was a little fear in his words, but his tone was very calm, which also left a deep impression on the two reporters.

"My understanding is that the central government has a specific background when it introduced the policy of tilting towards foreign investment, including the early stage of reform and opening up and after 90 years, with the age of the two of you, it is impossible not to know the special situation faced by our country's economy and opening up policy in that era, so I think this kind of policy was appropriate at that time, even at present, it still has a certain degree of rationality, but in the future, well, I think it may gradually lose the rationality of its existence, and face the necessity of revision or even abolition. ”

Chu Yulin and Wang Fan both nodded in understanding.

"What I mean is that for attracting foreign investment, our country does need to formulate some preferential policies because of its national conditions, which can speed up our country's economic construction and development, but we should also pay attention to the fact that domestic enterprises should be more bold to open up and encourage their development, which is where our foundation lies,......

"In the treatment of private enterprises, my personal view is that we should be bold and open, and not be afraid, even foreign-funded enterprises can encourage each other to develop, and what reason do we have to restrict the development of private enterprises? This is unreasonable. ”

Sha Zhengyang's view is very bold, but he is not alone in this view, the foreign economy and the private economy cannot be treated equally, which in itself has caused a lot of controversy, how to break this knot, the debate will continue.

"Well, Mr. Sha, let's continue the original topic, do you understand, when the country formulates policies, it must uphold the principle of fairness, and cannot favor one over the other?" asked Chu Yulin.

"The central government has the central considerations, in a specific environment there may be some inclination, the policy is better, but in the laws and regulations should be more rigorous, in the overall should strive for fairness, because in the market economy system, especially in the face of the advent of the era of globalization, when our country joins the TO process accelerated, people purchase your goods and services, will not because you are a Sino-foreign joint venture or state-owned enterprise or private enterprise to lower the standard, if the policy can not be fair, then it will inevitably have an impact on a certain type of economy. ”

The analysis is very incisive, giving Chu Wang and the two people the feeling that they are more like facing an economist who is talking eloquently, with sharp and cautious words, leaving no dead ends.

"Then how does the word fairness reflect the meaning of the word fairness for state-owned enterprises?" Wang Fan immediately followed.

Sha Zhengyang also noticed that the cooperation between Chu Wang and Wang was quite tacit.

One is good at opening and closing from the front, and the other side likes to launch a surprise attack from the side, which is very in line with the principle of winning with a positive fit.

"Therefore, for state-owned enterprises, fairness should be discussed in combination with people's livelihood. Sha Zhengyang sprinkled and pointed out the country.

"Our country's state-owned enterprises are burdened with a huge historical burden, in fact, we all know that our state-owned enterprises in the reform and opening up decades and to the present, is not a simple enterprise, but shoulders the dual attributes of society and enterprises, and even has to add a weight, that is, the national attributes. ”

Sha Zhengyang opened the topic unhurriedly, "Needless to say, the attributes of the enterprise are to speak with products and judge the winners and losers in the market, but the huge structural shortcomings left by the planned economy era cannot be solved and reversed in one sentence." ”

"How to position the identity of the employees of state-owned enterprises as the masters? Can you send them away in a word? This will lead to some systematic reflection and questioning, which needs to be solved through the institutional level, which is the social attribute, how to solve it, and the state should have a policy to protect their worries. ”

"Then there's the national attribute. Sha Zhengyang continued to elaborate," Specific state-owned enterprises, for the important areas related to the national economy and people's livelihood to bear the national attributes, and even to rank the market attributes behind, which is contrary to the essential attributes of the enterprise itself, then how to solve this contradiction, but also need some policies and systems to solve, of course, this problem is more complex, need specific problems to analyze, in each specific field to specific analysis, in addition, in general, bear the national attributes, then need to be compensated in some resources and policies, which may be in other economic sectors, it is not very fair, how to define, this is also a difficult problem。 ”

Perfectly interpreted.